25 H PP question

[crazyman]

Been brging my mage to most guild runs now till LK to make things funner for farm content and sunday on Heroic Professor I got hit by a mutated slime while Linked, after the link I evocated with the haste debuff and went from 8k mana to 33k mana when the cast bar was only half over. So my question is would it be beneficial to not worry bout mana gems or evocate till im down to 3-4k mana then just get hit by a mutated and evocate to full?

[Mizzor]

That's a very interesting use of game mechanics. I think that is a good strategy, minus the damage you will incur from getting hit. Typically, at least in the guilds I've been in, mages are on the bottom of the totem pole when heals are considered. I don't understand why, but it just seems like mages die the most when compared to other classes, and typically end up getting healed less as a result. Anyways I might have to give that strat a try on our kills. That could very useful in the long run, especially if you evo to full, then IB the debuff off.

[Valanna]

I had no idea that worked, thanks man.

@ Mizzor: Mages die much because we have the lowest health pools coupled with no damage-reducing talents.

[takolin]

@ Mizzor: Mages die much because we have the lowest health pools coupled with no damage-reducing talents.

Stop lying.
Talents that reduce damage:


1: Arcane fortitude
2: Magic absorption
3: Arcane shielding
4: Improved blink (though you need to blink first)
5: Prismatic cloak
6: Molten shields
7: Fiery payback
8: Frost warding
9: Frozen core
10: Ice barrier
11: Arctic winds

There's a difference between "there are no talents that reduce incoming damage" and "I don't take the talents that reduce incoming damage because it'll lower the amount of damage I can do".

And then there's some baseline abilities that every mage has to reduce damage.

Ice block, mana shield (not advisable to use), frost ward, fire ward, mage armour,...

[tomathy]

Been brging my mage to most guild runs now till LK to make things funner for farm content and sunday on Heroic Professor I got hit by a mutated slime while Linked, after the link I evocated with the haste debuff and went from 8k mana to 33k mana when the cast bar was only half over. So my question is would it be beneficial to not worry bout mana gems or evocate till im down to 3-4k mana then just get hit by a mutated and evocate to full?

there is no buff that increases your casting speed, your thinking here is wrong, getting hit by malleable goo is bad, if it normaly takes 6 seconds to evocate, it would then take 24 seconds to get the same amount of mana when hit with the goo

[Herecius]

there is no buff that increases your casting speed, your thinking here is wrong, getting hit by malleable goo is bad, if it normaly takes 6 seconds to evocate, it would then take 24 seconds to get the same amount of mana when hit with the goo

He wasn't implying that he got a casting speed buff; your statement would be true if Cataclysm haste mechanics were in effect, but what's happening is that instead of a 8 second evocate, he gets 24 straight seconds of evocate that he can stop whenever he wants, during which mana regen is buffed by the evocate buff, which is static 15% every 2 seconds.

Here's how it works: the mage casts Evocation. Evocation gives the mage a buff that reads 'Restores 15% of maximum mana every 2 seconds.' This works out to the 60% stated by the tooltip, but the buff i what is actually giving you mana, and the buff only exists while casting evocation. If the mage casts it while inflicted with the goo debuff, then they can evocate all the way to full mana, because the buff remains for so much longer and is in no way effected by haste in how often it tics, only the channeling time is altered by the goo debuff.

[Pasture]

The important question is whether this is actually useful in practice. Being able to Evocate to full is great (though why you want to 'not worry about mana gems' when they cost nothing to use is beyond me) but you have to factor in the haste debuff that will carry over after you're full on mana.

It's a clever trick but I would imagine not getting hit by goos is more beneficial in all respects overall.

[Deleted]

It does work.

Its also the reason why Warlocks usually don't CoT mages in arena.

[Heilige]

Mana shouldn't be an issue.

Go about your normal CD burn, should have you at or around 40-45% mana within the first 18-19 seconds. Evocate just before Icy Veins wears off. Continue normal AB4AM rotation, using gems (and Arcane Torrent for us B'Elves). Use evocate during transitional phases aswell, when he's running and goos are spawning.

PROFIT!

Generally top 3-4 on effective dmg for Heroic Putricide. Where in the top 3-4 depends on RNG.

[Valanna]

Stop lying.
Talents that reduce damage:


1: Arcane fortitude
2: Magic absorption
3: Arcane shielding
4: Improved blink (though you need to blink first)
5: Prismatic cloak
6: Molten shields
7: Fiery payback
8: Frost warding
9: Frozen core
10: Ice barrier
11: Arctic winds

There's a difference between "there are no talents that reduce incoming damage" and "I don't take the talents that reduce incoming damage because it'll lower the amount of damage I can do".

And then there's some baseline abilities that every mage has to reduce damage.

Ice block, mana shield (not advisable to use), frost ward, fire ward, mage armour,...

You sir, just won the annual retard reward, in May!

Let me rephrase:

Any decent arcane mage doesn't spec into damage-reducing talents, with one exception: frost warding.

1: Arcane fortitude. If you take melee damage that might kill you in PvE, you suck or the tank is dead.
2: Magic absorption. Yes, you may spec into this, but 80 resistance can mean nothing as damage reduction is calculated with "up to x%".
3: Arcane shielding. Mage armor is pro, mana shield is pro, you're a good mage, bro.
4: Improved blink (though you need to blink first). So worth speccing into that, yo.
5: Prismatic cloak. Very situational. You could spec into it for special encounters, but very rarely it will make up for your dps loss
6: Molten shields. You spec into this aswell, yo. (meaning as fire).
7: Fiery payback. You're making me giggle now, friend.
8: Frost warding. Good talent. Useful on 2 ICC fights. inb4 standing in cold flame is pro. inb4 letting frostbolt volley/lay waste go through is pro. inb4 standing in remorseless winter on LK is pro.
9: Frozen core. Frost PvE = serious business.
10: Ice barrier. ^^^^^^^^^^
11: Arctic winds. ^^^^^^^^^

To strengthen my argument, I never uttered the words "there are no talents that reduce incoming damage" in the first place, you assumed I knew of no talents that reduce damage. No decent mage specs into them for a PvE setting, that is bottom line. We were also discussing Professor Putricide who doesn't deal any fire or frost damage... in case you should need that knowledge. I'd rather take my 9% crit from molten armor than 40 resistance from mage armor as well. Ice Block doesn't work if you want to minimize damage taken while getting malleable goo debuff, as it will not go through. All your arguments are null and you just proven yourself an unknowledgeable mage (if even a mage).

[Potato Bus]

Mages die much because we have the lowest health pools coupled with no damage-reducing talents.

I never uttered the words "there are no talents that reduce incoming damage" in the first place

opcorn:

[takolin]

You sir, just won the annual retard reward, in May!

Let me rephrase:

Any decent arcane mage doesn't spec into damage-reducing talents, with one exception: frost warding.

1: Arcane fortitude. If you take melee damage that might kill you in PvE, you suck or the tank is dead.
2: Magic absorption. Yes, you may spec into this, but 80 resistance can mean nothing as damage reduction is calculated with "up to x%".
3: Arcane shielding. Mage armor is pro, mana shield is pro, you're a good mage, bro.
4: Improved blink (though you need to blink first). So worth speccing into that, yo.
5: Prismatic cloak. Very situational. You could spec into it for special encounters, but very rarely it will make up for your dps loss
6: Molten shields. You spec into this aswell, yo. (meaning as fire).
7: Fiery payback. You're making me giggle now, friend.
8: Frost warding. Good talent. Useful on 2 ICC fights. inb4 standing in cold flame is pro. inb4 letting frostbolt volley/lay waste go through is pro. inb4 standing in remorseless winter on LK is pro.
9: Frozen core. Frost PvE = serious business.
10: Ice barrier. ^^^^^^^^^^
11: Arctic winds. ^^^^^^^^^

To strengthen my argument, I never uttered the words "there are no talents that reduce incoming damage" in the first place, you assumed I knew of no talents that reduce damage. No decent mage specs into them for a PvE setting, that is bottom line. We were also discussing Professor Putricide who doesn't deal any fire or frost damage... in case you should need that knowledge. I'd rather take my 9% crit from molten armor than 40 resistance from mage armor as well. Ice Block doesn't work if you want to minimize damage taken while getting malleable goo debuff, as it will not go through. All your arguments are null and you just proven yourself an unknowledgeable mage (if even a mage).

I'll just quote myself to make a point.

There's a difference between "there are no talents that reduce incoming damage" and "I don't take the talents that reduce incoming damage because it'll lower the amount of damage I can do".

On a side note, thank you Potato Bus for the quote, it saved me time to point it out.

[Jeleh]

@ Mizzor: Mages die much because we have the lowest health pools coupled with no damage-reducing talents.

You sir, just won the annual retard reward, in May!

To strengthen my argument, I never uttered the words "there are no talents that reduce incoming damage" in the first place

really? you didn't? must of been confusing the part where you said "no damage-reducing talents"

Whilst i agree no good mage will ever take them, insulting someone, when they have made a criticism based upon correct thinking even more so when you made an incorrect statement in the first place makes you just look silly.

[Rugz]

2: Magic absorption. Yes, you may spec into this, but 80 resistance can mean nothing as damage reduction is calculated with "up to x%".

And tanks shouldn't bother with dodge and parry since if the boss hits you through avoidance you might aswell have 0% avoidance for that hit.

[Bielz]

Mana shouldn't be an issue.

Go about your normal CD burn, should have you at or around 40-45% mana within the first 18-19 seconds. Evocate just before Icy Veins wears off. Continue normal AB4AM rotation, using gems (and Arcane Torrent for us B'Elves). Use evocate during transitional phases aswell, when he's running and goos are spawning.

PROFIT!

Generally top 3-4 on effective dmg for Heroic Putricide. Where in the top 3-4 depends on RNG.

Proper mages spec fire for putricide HM.

Yet I wouldn't advice to do this, for this to be beneficial you'd have to use your iceblock to erase the debuff straight after, but saving your iceblock for transitions phases is godly for the raid when you get targetted by the green ooze.

[Valanna]

really? you didn't? must of been confusing the part where you said "no damage-reducing talents"

Whilst i agree no good mage will ever take them, insulting someone, when they have made a criticism based upon correct thinking even more so when you made an incorrect statement in the first place makes you just look silly.

I never said "mages have no damage reducing talents". There are damage reducing talents, but in a raid setting we don't use them - we don't have them. This discussion was about professor putricide, not mages in general. So please quit it, if you want to contribute, add something to the discussion. Ganging up on random noob (me) doesn't help the OP much.

On topic: I usually go arcane on PP. I always do over 12k. Then again I'm not very adapted to fire, but I won E-dps every time on heroic.

[Rugz]

There are damage reducing talents, but in a raid setting we don't use them - we don't have them. This discussion was about professor putricide

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#of0fck0cZ0EcbRhIhVubhct
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#of0ifz0IzxGuMxedcZMhf0o

Oh look raid specs with damage reducing talents.

[Temma]

OP: Honestly if you are in/doing Heroic ICC and you have 277gear, its more profitable to spec Fire/TTW anyways. The DPS/Dmg output is greater than Arcane for most all fights. Also, as fire you rarely have a mana issue, and if you did, use a gem, ask for replensishment, judge wis (if a ret pally isnt) or mana tide. Myself, currently 10/12 h icc and working on h prof, it would be too huge of a dps loss to 1) be arcane, and 2) purposely get hit by something that you arent meant to get hit by only to get mana back when pot/gem and evo w/o the debuff would be a much greater dps increase.

[grogglol]

Typically, at least in the guilds I've been in, mages are on the bottom of the totem pole when heals are considered. I don't understand why, but it just seems like mages die the most when compared to other classes, and typically end up getting healed less as a result.

Your healers are doing it wrong.

The top three classes I aim my heals for in a raid are:

1. Mages
2. Enhancement Shamans
3. Fury Warriors

Why? Because they generally take the most amount of damage. Other than that, I look to heal healers since we get no heals from Judgement of Light.

[Valanna]

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#of0fck0cZ0EcbRhIhVubhct
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#of0ifz0IzxGuMxedcZMhf0o

Oh look raid specs with damage reducing talents.

Wow. Just read my second post on here. 80 resistance can be helpful, but doesn't make that big of a difference. Frost warding works really well on putricide I hear.