Why are tanks so sensitive when it comes to heroics?

[SilkforCalde]

Easy enough to say if you're a meat shield. Tanks have virtually no responsibility or mechanics to deal with in WotLK raiding. You don't even have to worry much about threat generation with tricks and MD. Tanks have had the easiest role by far in this expansion, and it's really annoying that so many of you are still stuck in the BC mentality.

... what?

Dude, don't give me that shit. I've healed every boss in every raid this expansion. I've dpsed as melee and ranged as well. And I've tanked them.

DPS is always the easiest role. Healing and tanking switches complexity rather frequently. It's very, very easy to heal Heroic Lady Deathwhisper. It's very difficult to tank Heroic Lady Deathwhisper. It's very, very easy to tank Heroic Festergut. It's fairly difficult (healing is pretty fuckin easy) to heal the fight.

It's never difficult to dps. So, seriously man, think before you type your shit. It's really annoying to read such obviously wrong things.

Edit: it should be noted that ranged dps is substantially easier than melee dps, so ranged dps is by far the easiest role in the game. It's why I have no respect for warlocks, shadow priests, mages, hunters, ele shamans, and boomkins.

[Spartanoble]

If someone ninja pulls then they can tank the mobs

[Oneleg]

I seem to recall a rogue recently solo'd patchwerk 25 man.

after 4 hours, and using a pathing exploit.

[Garil]

... what?

Dude, don't give me that shit. I've healed every boss in every raid this expansion. I've dpsed as melee and ranged as well. And I've tanked them.

DPS is always the easiest role. Healing and tanking switches complexity rather frequently. It's very, very easy to heal Heroic Lady Deathwhisper. It's very difficult to tank Heroic Lady Deathwhisper. It's very, very easy to tank Heroic Festergut. It's fairly difficult (healing is pretty fuckin easy) to heal the fight.

It's never difficult to dps. So, seriously man, think before you type your shit. It's really annoying to read such obviously wrong things.

Edit: it should be noted that ranged dps is substantially easier than melee dps, so ranged dps is by far the easiest role in the game. It's why I have no respect for warlocks, shadow priests, mages, hunters, ele shamans, and boomkins.

Orly?? Obviously wrong. Yet you can come up with only one example. Consider all of the encounters, their primary mechanics, and who is responsible for dealing with them. H LDW, and the Keleseth tank on Blood Princes are the only ones I can think of in ICC where the tank has to do much beyond survive hits, or taunt at X stacks. Go ahead and prove me wrong, I'll wait.

Edit: BTW, last week we were missing a tank. Had our boomkin respec to bear, his tank gear blows and he'd never tanked anything in ICC. We didn't have any trouble with heroic deathwhisper, and he didn't make any complaints about it being hard.

[Fornaw]

Orly?? Obviously wrong. Yet you can come up with only one example. Consider all of the encounters, their primary mechanics, and who is responsible for dealing with them. H LDW, and the Keleseth tank on Blood Princes are the only ones I can think of in ICC where the tank has to do much beyond survive hits, or taunt at X stacks. Go ahead and prove me wrong, I'll wait.

Edit: BTW, last week we were missing a tank. Had our boomkin respec to bear, his tank gear blows and he'd never tanked anything in ICC. We didn't have any trouble with heroic deathwhisper, and he didn't make any complaints about it being hard.

The primary mechanics on most ICC fights is don't stand in the fire. Tanks/Heals have to move out of fire just as often as DPS does. You're ragging on this guy for only providing one example where tanking is a challenge, yet you provide no examples where DPS is a challenge. Here's a hint, there isn't a single fight in ICC where DPS is harder than being either the MT or the OT. There are a few fights where being DPS is harder than being on boring tank duty (OT on BQL anyone?). Closest thing you gave to an example was something someone else did. When you have experience doing something, then you can say it's easy/hard. Until then you're opinion is invalid.

[Iafkalot]

Just because you only notice the pull/taunt doesnt mean the tank isnt doing anything. Tanks have rotations just like dps. If you don't even notice the tank, he's doing his job.


Congrats to your boomkin Garil, but bear tanking is one of the least involved tanking specs. Grab someone with crappy gear and a weak grasp of tanking, give em a warrior and tell them to do HOR. They might have some problems in there

[SilkforCalde]

Orly?? Obviously wrong. Yet you can come up with only one example. Consider all of the encounters, their primary mechanics, and who is responsible for dealing with them. H LDW, and the Keleseth tank on Blood Princes are the only ones I can think of in ICC where the tank has to do much beyond survive hits, or taunt at X stacks. Go ahead and prove me wrong, I'll wait.

Edit: BTW, last week we were missing a tank. Had our boomkin respec to bear, his tank gear blows and he'd never tanked anything in ICC. We didn't have any trouble with heroic deathwhisper, and he didn't make any complaints about it being hard.

Another example: Heroic Dreamwalker. Another example: Heroic Putricide abomination. Another example: Heroic Lich King.

Give me an example of where it's difficult for a dps to dps? There isn't one. I retired all my dps toons because that role is far too simple. It's boring.

[Sidonis]

1) How many dps set the tank as a focus target so they can see the tanks target and easily dps off of?

2) How many dps know the tank's current target and intentionally dps another target anyways, whether because they're bad or being assholes?

3) How many mages tell the tank they're bad because they're still frost spec and Deep Freeze crit a boss 5 seconds into the fight for 20k+ then don't understand why they have agro?

4) How many hunters don't misdirect on cooldown to make things run smoother?

5) How many plate melee dps think because they wear plate it's ok to death grip or keep righteous fury on?

6) How many dps are incapable of waitng a few seconds before aoeing, especially burst aoe, then blame the tank because they don't have control?

I could keep going, and I'm sure others could add much more, but it's the gist of why tanks are "sensitive" in heroics, and it's half of the reason why tanks get instant queues and DPS takes 20 min or more, no one wants to tank for your sorry, ungrateful, unskilled, idiotic asses.

[Deleted]

I love it when tanks say all DPS are bad but refuse to even think of the possibility that most tanks suck absolute arse as well.

[4KhazModan]

This is just a repeat of what everyone else is telling you. The tank sets the pace of pulling. Now normally, if someone needs extra badges and says so, I will happily oblige. I don't mind carrying people, but if you ninja pull, I will give you one warning. And one warning only. After that, your gone. Your lucky the tank saved you and only left at last boss. I would have kicked you after letting you and your friend die.

[SilkforCalde]

dps couldn't focus target me when i'm tanking because i am constantly tab targetting so that's absolutely horrible advice

[Sidonis]

I love it when tanks say all DPS are bad but refuse to even think of the possibility that most tanks suck absolute arse as well.

Of course there are tanks that suck, but playing like an idiot as a dps only compounds the problem. If the tank is already showing signs of being bad, the dps playing like it's a BG instead of a heroic is only going to make it worse.

I've gotten bad tanks out of randoms on my mage, and still made it through reasonably ok because I dps his target, I sheep runaways going for stupid dps or the healer, and I give him the extra time to build aoe threat instead of just immediately unloading like an idiot. If I was on my hunter I'd misdirect multi/volley as able, feign often, and generally just dps slower. A wipe isn't going to speed things up, making the tank leave is going to slow things down, and getting yourself kicked if you're the odd man out of their lil queue group doesn't do any good either.

People are just flat out in a hurry like finishing 5-10 minutes later than usual is unacceptable, yet they'll gladly wipe from pulling agro, make a tank leave or vote kick and sit around for another 15 minutes, or get booted themselves and be waiting 15-30 minutes, when a little patience and smart play would have meant the heroic got finished, you got your badges, got possible upgrades, and your gold/badges for the random.

dps couldn't focus target me when i'm tanking because i am constantly tab targetting so that's absolutely horrible advice

If there's that many mobs that you're cycling through then it's aoe anyways. If it's a 2-3 mob pull then why you can't smack the first mob a couple of times to give them something specific to beat on while you -then- start building direct threat on the others is beyond me. Most people still respond positively to skulls as well, which I still have a macro for quick marking. Though again, the ones who ignore the skull are part of the overall problem in the first place.

[msdos]

i'm not sure if someone said this, but, why are you so sensitive about the sensitive tanks in heroics?

[Will]

You are showing the attitude of four players and you don't have an opinion about it yourself nor did you try to remedy the angry outbursts those four tank players were having. Four players who are in a cranky mood does not equate a few good million tank players.

Now you are here asking us for sympathy so you can gloat about it. :.

I'll tell you why tanks are so sensitive when it comes to heroics.

It's socially awkward types like you who don't have the slightest clue on how to handle a person who is having a tantrum for no reason.

That and hunters who for some reason don't have feign death and misdirect and deathknights who enjoy gaining threat over the tank just to show off their dps.

As a tank player myself, I can safely say it's not socially awkward types who annoy me. It's smarmy arrogant ones like you.
The OP does have an opinion about the issue, so I have no idea why you wrote he doesn't. And I fail to see why someone should have to remedy an unwarranted tank outburst. In most of the scenarios the OP described, tanks overreact because of the stupidest things such as the mages spec. Why should we have to explain ourselves to someone in order to placate their irrational behaviour, when it's them who should calm down instead? and yet you have the nerve to speak to the OP as if he's deliberately trying to annoy people! There is nothing wrong with sharing negative stories - it often makes for interesting reading, hence why I like reading such posts.

"don't have the slightest clue on how to handle a person who is having a tantrum for no reason."
Well the 'no reason' part pretty much proves that it's the one having the tantrum who is awkward, not the victims. Get your facts straight before acting like a depressing smart-ass.

Furthermore, regarding your point with irritating show-off DPS, well if they ever annoy me while im' tanking, i don't use it as an 'excuse' to be an asshole to everyone. there IS NO excuse, and your reply to the OP makes it sound like you think it's okay!

sorry for wall of text, it's people like this who really get to me.

[Manhands]

Edit: Original post was asking for trolls...the forum kind.

[Will]

I like how most of the counter-arguments brought up against the original poster all regard ninja pulling. If you read the original post, that only happened ONCE on the 2nd boss in UP. I'm not sure if it takes 2 people to start the event, otherwise it was only his friend who triggered it.

What excuse do the tanks have in the 3 other examples? Exactly. You read 4 bad scenarios, see 1 you dislike, and treat them all the same.

When Im tanking i personally like it when people ninja pull. heroics are so wtfboring it makes them slightly more challenging or keeps me awake. However as much as I respect not all tanks will enjoy this, If they dislike it they should (on the first offense) point it out and rationally ask the DPS to stop. To go spastic straight away is just foolish.

---------- Post added 06-18-2010 at 02:21 AM ----------

maybe cause you're female.

i see a lot of nice tanks too and i'm not female...
I really wish people would stop sucking up to females on the game. Heck, they could be blokes for all we know, this being the internet... and I've played female chars and been treated the same as ever. (And don't say 'they know you're a guy IRL - were talking about random heroics here so i doubt many people i pug with would know me personally)

*edit* sneaky, Manhands

[frownface2000]

Lol, all of those tanks are asshats. I pretty much only play my DK for tanking heroics when I feel like it (because blood tanking is wicked fun and "autopilot for win" since the buff to Icy Touch, as one of our guildie tanks put it)

and i don't have any problem doing extra bosses, or carrying someone with a low GS.

The only thing that's really annoying is when the WHOLE group has a 2k gearscore, because then it takes like 5 minutes to down a pack of trash, and I'm the only one throwing out interrputs on anything.

But even then, I try to HELP them before going to Vote Kick.

[Manhands]

There is quite a bit of pressure on the tank: positioning, speed of the run, survival of the party, etc. In heroics, dps and healers can half-ass most of the time. The tank has to make sure he has good aggro and positioning on EVERY pull. If he doesn't, people can get pissy.

It's a rough job. Roll a tank and try it out. I'm a fairly chill person, but the way dps selects their targets has turned me into an asshat before, too. (I'm looking at you, ranged dps, who IMMEDIATELY starts unloading on the caster I'm trying to LoS.)

Now, there's no excuse for the chumps in the OP. But it isn't like tanking turns you into a BETTER person.

[Smeeh]

having tanked with my warrior since vanilla i can easily say that wotlk heroics post-LFG tool, is the worst kind of tanking anyone will ever encounter. Hell i dont even sign as a tank anymore unless i have atleast 2 freinds with me, it just isnt worth it, id rather have to wait the 15-20 minutes than have to deal with the idiots the LFG tool has brought out. As dps i can just cruise along and mind my own buisness, but as a tank people always look at you first when shit hits the fan, and that coupled with the fact that people are doing stupid shit like never before is enough to drive anyone insane. I can almost guarantee that 4 out of 5 elitist/sensitive tanks you meet have a reason for being so, the last one is just stupid and no one likes him

[Emek]

In heroics 90% of the time the heroic is on the tanks shoulders. I can down a boss in 15 seconds solo on my mage and i've still been groups that have wiped. The only time I've failed a heroic on my tank is when the healer dc'd in an icc heroic.

In terms of kicking people though, i'll only kick someone if they are totally incompetent with a big mouth. I understand people like to epeen around but if you have an epeen you better have skill to back it up. Some people just like to be dicks and kick for the hell of it, or kick for a tiny reason cuz they are on a power trip. Just gotta deal with it though =\