Shoud i a balance druid get a chance to roll / bid on cloth ?

[Deleted]

In my guild i cannot sadly enough , even though some BiS items ar cloth ...

[Shadowsz]

Yes, definitely, since as you said, some boomkin item BiS are cloth items.

[ragemaw]

Of course. As long as it's an upgrade, it should be allowed. I don't have issues with people wearing downgraded gear, as long as it's appropriate. I mean a shammy rolling on a spirit leather piece would be stupid, but seeing as a boomkin needs the same stats as any of the clothies, there's nothing wrong with a little cloth. I wear a few pieces of cloth on my boomkin, and I'm not really looking for leather to replace them with since the stats are just fine on them.

[diseous]

I voted yes because all capes are Cloth. Other than that, BiS or not, Warlocks, Priests and Mages do not have the option to roll on LEATHER. If your raid does not consist of any of those, or, the ones that are in it already have the item, keep your roll to yourself.

[Fuzzzie]

Yes for sure.

A well geared boomkin is amazing DPS these days. Any raid would be doing themselves a favor gearing them.

[Cathercy]

Entirely up to how your guild sees it.

One side of it is some cloth is BiS.

The other side is cloth has 3 classes and 6-9 specs (I don't know what specs are viable blah blah) rolling for it already. Leather has I believe 1 class and 2 specs. So it makes it that much harder for cloth to get gear when it is already harder for them compared to leather.

[InfernalRain]

Yes you should have a chance, but imo if a clothie needs/wants the item in question they should get priority.

[Fuzzzie]

The other side is cloth has 3 classes and 6-9 specs (I don't know what specs are viable blah blah) rolling for it already. Leather has I believe 1 class and 2 specs. So it makes it that much harder for cloth to get gear when it is already harder for them compared to leather.

Well not all leather SP pieces are good for both resto and balance specs. Since there isn't enough room in the game to satisfy both so cloth items sometimes become BiS.

[Soulssong]

Typically, the differences between a BiS cloth item and a leather one is negligible.

Will it destroy your raid if you used the leather one? Probably not.

IMO, it should go to a clothy first. Once they get their upgrade, then it should go to you before off-specs get it

[Deleted]

Wait for clothers to get it, then pounce, while also petition blizzard about your poor itemisation (like ele Shaman).

Cloth should have prio, since they don't want to be fighting against druids/paladins/shaman.

[Duskstorm]

Depends. I personally hate BiS lists, and that's a terrible reason to allow a Balance druid to roll on cloth. Here's my philosophy:

1. For a pug, YES. You're not going to see these people again, and if it makes you dish out more hurt, then you should be able to roll on it.

2. For a group you run with every week/guild run, NO. The reason being that while that piece of gear may be BiS for you, the fact of the matter is, you don't need to be stacked in BiS gear to clear content. If a clothie can with the item, and then some other boss drops a leather equivalent, then you realistically won't have nearly the competition for it.

Pretend there's a two boss instance, the first one you kill drops a cloth caster wrist, and the other drops a leather caster wrists. Here's two scenarios:

1. Boss #1 drops the cloth wrist piece. You and a mage roll on it. You win it. Then you down the second boss, and the leather caster wrists drop. You shard them because you already have the cloth wrists. Or you upgrade to the leather and vendor the wrists.

2. Boss #1 drops the cloth wrist piece. The mage rolls on it, you don't, and the mage wins in. Then you down the second boss, and the leather caster wrists drop. You get an upgrade, too. You both win.

I know that's a contrived answer, but even in the real world I've seen this scenario play out plenty of times. Bottom line, the group as a whole will gear up faster if you let clothies roll on cloth, and boomkins ONLY on leather. You have to prioritize the group getting geared up above your personal "BiS."

[Cathercy]

Well not all leather SP pieces are good for both resto and balance specs. Since there isn't enough room in the game to satisfy both so cloth items sometimes become BiS.

I already said some cloth is BiS in my post, but thanks for restating it again.

[Wyldfire]

Even at the tier 10 level, there just aren't enough well itemized leather pieces. It's much better than it has been previously, but for Moonkins to get the best possible gear, they need to wear cloth.

[Jirmus]

you wear leather for a reason so Mainspec over other clothies ---> no fucking way they cant roll on your leather either can they?
for offspec roll with other clothies ---> yes

[Ardourdan]

Yes you should have a chance, but imo if a clothie needs/wants the item in question they should get priority.

All guilds, with intelligent members should realise that armor, for DPS in PvE is a redundant statistic as only the tank should take melee damage. Because of this, any caster (whether a Balance Druid or Elemental Shaman) should have the exact same level of priority as the next caster because for most slots, there is only a cloth caster item that is trully viable and that fits the statistics that spec needs to gain best possible statistics. For example, there are no Mail spell hit items that are viable for BiS, and the same can be said for Balance Druids. Also, it is often true that there isn't a Caster DPS item for Elemental Shamans or Balance Druids with Int, Stam, Spell power, haste and crit, and because of this, Cloth items should be the only item viable to use.

A Guild master, Guild Officer or Raid Leader's inability to recognise this basic fact of the game is a sorry and sad state of affairs for both their intelligence as a gamer and as a human being.

[sethers656]

Yes, but only after all the clothies that want it, have it...

I say this because if cloth piece A drops off Boss 1.
Then Leather piece B drops off Boss 2.

Clothies can only win the piece A while you can wait and win piece B. It might be a bit less itemized for you but you have a much larger chance at winning it.... Your guild is hopefully killing the bosses every week so you can get it once they all have it if it is BiS.

[badge]

Im all for boomkins wearing cloth, i know that there BIS is cloth a lot of the time, but i dont think its fair to take it off a clothie when we get to roll against no other class for hit rating leather. if no clothie needs it, then it should be yours

[Deleted]

As a priest main my reply is no.
At least if any clothie needs this item.
By the same idea are you fine with holy palas and shamans rolling on your leather?

Good thing it will be fixed in cata.

[boseguy22]

lol this is nutz. If it is a BiS item, restricting armor type is stupid and your raid leader is slitting his own throat.

You said this is a guild raid, not a pug. For pugs, sure, stick to your armor type. Pugs are for gearing up and seeing basic content. But in a guild setting, where raid progression is the goal, your raid leaders goal should be to gear the whole group to clear the content, not stick to some arbitrary armor rule.

If your raid leader isnt familiar with your class, I would privately talk to him (if you call him out in public there is a good chance you will lose more then getting to role on BiS cloth), and even make a BiS list for your class, and show him (or her). You dont need your entire set to be cloth, but for those couple BiS pieces let him know.

Honestly, after you talk to him, if he still says, you wear leather deal with it... It might be time to start looking for a new guild if you really want to get into progression raiding.

Or suck it up... wait till cata and then deal with Mastery requiring you to match your armor type.

[Duskstorm]

All guilds, with intelligent members should realise that armor, for DPS in PvE is a redundant statistic as only the tank should take melee damage. Because of this, any caster (whether a Balance Druid or Elemental Shaman) should have the exact same level of priority as the next caster because for most slots, there is only a cloth caster item that is trully viable and that fits the statistics that spec needs to gain best possible statistics. For example, there are no Mail spell hit items that are viable for BiS, and the same can be said for Balance Druids. Also, it is often true that there isn't a Caster DPS item for Elemental Shamans or Balance Druids with Int, Stam, Spell power, haste and crit, and because of this, Cloth items should be the only item viable to use.

A Guild master, Guild Officer or Raid Leader's inability to recognise this basic fact of the game is a sorry and sad state of affairs for both their intelligence as a gamer and as a human being.

... but what if a Moonkin getting the best gear comes at the cost of a mage or warlock having to keep their older, inferior gear?

If I'm leading/master looting an icc25 raid, I want to make sure the LEAST amount of loot gets sharded. I want as many of the raiders in as much i264 gear as possible. This means that if there's a leather option available for a given slot, I'll give clothies exclusive access to cloth drops of the same slot.

It's not because balance druids need the armor, it's because I want to get the GROUP geared up as quickly as possible.

The fact that you can't conceive of a reason for preventing druids to roll on cloth beyond the armor stat should not enable you to blanket label raid leaders as ignorant for doing so. FWIW my main is a Moonkin and I willingly tell clothies to get priority over me for exactly this reason. I know that an item with crit+haste is generally better itemized than crit+spirit and especially haste+spirit, but the fact of the matter is you can clear all content in the game without your best in slot, and you can go back and get the minor upgrades later when all the clothies have picked em up. Obviously a cloth piece should go to a Moonkin main spec before a clothie alt spec.

I promise you the difference between a BiS and something not quite as good is dwarfed by even minor differences in skill level, rotation, movement pathing, and general raid awareness. Blizzard does NOT tune fights around spreadsheet min/maxing.

People that complain about this are likely prioritizing their own gearing about the groups progression. If you play for gear, I don't want you in my raid. I want people who play for the achievement, not to dress up their toon in barbie dolls adorned in spreadsheets and best in slot lists.