Fireball and Frostbolt cast time reductions.

[Swizzle]

So if you read the front page, you should know that both Fireball and Frostbolt have had their cast times reduced by 0.5 seconds, bringing fireball to 3.0 untalented and Frostbolt 2.5 untalented.

My point of concern is that this effectively guts both of the spells coefficients which as not been readily remedied through additional "__% of your spellpower" talents, thus reducing the amount of damage both spells deal. This can be seen as a huge way of devaluing haste for both specs, but it leads to problems for frost which essentially caps out at 33.34% crit.

Anyway, before I trial off, is there anyone here with access to beta and it's forums who can test to see the difference between the spells and their current damage?

[Anobix]

Hmm, so it sounds like BT (iirc) all over again where they had to unnerf the cast time coefficients from the improved spells?

[Micke]

Why would frost cap out at 33.34% crit? shatter only benefits deep freeze for pve

cant do link or long copy paste atm cuz apparently my old account ceased to exists for unknown reason so lost all my posts, but on wow forums Lhiv has a thread called "cataclysm mage: the nerdy bits" with all the spell coefficients and masteries

[Swizzle]

33.34 x 3 = 100.02, which is crit cap. this is a general discussion towards PvE and PvP, since the spell is used in both scenarios.

[Micke]

yeah I dont think capping crit in pvp is going to be much of an issue

[Hinalover]

Swizzle, Lhivera has already done some preliminary spell coefficients on the Beta. You can check out his math here:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...Id=25626347159

Fireball
Damage range @ 171 spell power: 697-856 +196 DOT
Damage range @ 2900 spell power: 2569-2728 +664 DOT
Estimated DD coefficient: 2.4 / 3.5 = 0.6857
(2900 - 171) * 0.6857 = 1871
2569 - 697 = 1872
Estimated DOT coefficient: 0.6 / 3.5 = 0.1714
(2900 - 171) * 0.1714 = 468
664 - 196 = 468
Estimated combined coefficient: 3.0 / 3.5 = 0.8571

Frostbolt
Damage range @ 171 spell power: 580-713
Damage range @ 2900 spell power: 2141-2274
Estimated coefficient: 2.0 / 3.5 = 0.5714
(2900 - 171) * 0.5714 = 1559
2141 - 580 = 1561

[Tassir]

yeah I dont think capping crit in pvp is going to be much of an issue

agreed. same with haste capping too.

These spells are gonna be GCDs by the time we roll on over to the super ultra hidden boss of the expansion

[Milamber]

Can someone explain to me why the crit cap (for frost?) is 33.34%?

[Hinalover]

I'm not so sure that frost' crit cap is 33%. Between Winter's Chill and Shatter, to me, the crit cap for frost is 47%. Now, this would be after any raid buffs of course. But from my persepective, even that would be considered a soft cap, since frost mages would not be benefiting from more crit on frozen targets. However they can still crit with any other abilities.

[takolin]

Can someone explain to me why the crit cap (for frost?) is 33.34%?

Some blue post said that FoF will tripple your current crit chance and thus capping crit at 33,34% when it procs.

Or at least that's what I remember from it.

[flame]

hmm, they could always take 0.5s cast off all the spells that are 3.5s cast.
Therefore go from 100% coeff = 3.5s into 100%= 3.0s

Of course i understand that if they don't this is a big nerf, but we will wait and see, release isn't coming anytime soon

[Swizzle]

hmm, they could always take 0.5s cast off all the spells that are 3.5s cast.
Therefore go from 100% coeff = 3.5s into 100%= 3.0s

Of course i understand that if they don't this is a big nerf, but we will wait and see, release isn't coming anytime soon

that wouldn't change the fact that spells are derived from a 3.5 cast time formula. if anything, your change would be a huge buff to anything wiht a longer cast time and AoEs.

[DirewolfX]

OMG changes in beta. EVERYONE PANIC! =p

Okay seriously, let's keep it in perspective--it's early in beta and they're still playing around with things. I'm more concerned about the fun factor right now than which spec is doing 2% more DPS when Patchwerk farts daisies. DPS balancing will come later, once they've worked out fun gameplay. I think we should all be excited, because this expansion is looking like it could be the first significant change to the Mage's core gameplay since the dawn of recorded WoW history.

Re: Haste capping. I suspect we're going to see Imp. Fireball/Frostbolt removed and replaced with these new lower cast times; essentially rolling the talents into the base spell for everyone. Even if we don't, I think gear scaling will not be as extreme this expansion. Blizzard really screwed up the gear scaling with Trial of the Loot Pinatas and ICC.

25-man Progression:
T7: ilvl 213, some 226 (maly/os3d/KT)
T8: ilvl 226/232, 239 from hard modes (+13 ilvls--one tier, base gear was the same as 'hard mode' from previous tier)
T9: ilvl 245, 258 from hard modes (+19 ilvls--1.5 tiers, base gear half a tier above previous hard modes)
T10: ilvl 264, 277 from hard modes (+19 ilvls--1.5 tiers, base gear again, half a tier above previous hard modes)

Gear scaling for the whole second half of this expansion has been totally out of whack.

Now going into Cataclysm we know there will just be three tiers at any one time: 5-man, raid, heroic raid. Assuming they keep a more modest pace with tier scaling (and especially by keeping haste and crit in check), we shouldn't see nearly the problems we have this xpac.

[Swizzle]

don't forget 284s dire, or the 272 cloaks from insanity.