ALL NON FROST MAGES FAIL in Cata... again

[nabla2]

Except Arcane mage has been very viable in PvP for the last three arena seasons or something.
So your post is just QQQQQQQQQqqqqqqqqqq
The only valid concern is for the fire tree.

[flame]

- Shatter (Talent T4) Increases the damage of all your spells against frozen targets by 5%/10%/15% (OLD: 17%/34%/50%)

Now you can stop the QQ about frost PvP. Yes they nerfed Shatter to the ground.

Where are you seeing this? in my wowtal.com it continues to be 50% crit chance

[Swizzle]

- Shatter (Talent T4) Increases the damage of all your spells against frozen targets by 5%/10%/15% (OLD: 17%/34%/50%)

Now you can stop the QQ about frost PvP. Yes they nerfed Shatter to the ground.

that's a buff to shatter, not a nerf since it increased critical strike chance before, not damage.

[Khazaad]

I never understood why people cry because they're favorite specc is not the most optimal. If you enjoy it, play it.

I'd personally go Feces specc if hurling balls of s**t meant more damage and utility..

[flame]

that's a buff to shatter, not a nerf since it increased critical strike chance before, not damage.

You're joking right?

Before -> crit chance increased by 50% (since we do 200% dmg on crits, 50% of the time - while frozen- that would be 50% extra damage on frozen targets (50%*100% = 50%))
After -> extra 15% damage on frozen targets (wut?)

But notting is set on stone, lets wait.

[ProTech]

that's a buff to shatter, not a nerf since it increased critical strike chance before, not damage.

It's debatable if 50% crit or 15% damage is better. If you would crit with the spell anyway it's a buff as you do 15% more damage, but if you would not crit without the 50% buff then it's a nerf, as a critical strike does way more than 15% extra damage.

So if you have 30% crit from gear that means 80% chance to crit with shatter, witch is really high, compare this to 15% damage.

[Kabat]

Shatter isn't nerfed i have checked.
Shatter
Rank 1-3 4 3 Increases the critical strike chance of all your spells against frozen targets by [17%/34%/50%].
And its the same as old.

[Asza]

@TC
Take a friggin chillpill! It's just early beta. Blizzard's got a lot of things to attend to and I think they are more aware of that than anyone.

[Swizzle]

You're joking right?

Before -> crit chance increased by 50% (since we do 200% dmg on crits, 50% of the time - while frozen- that would be 50% extra damage on frozen targets (50%*100% = 50%))
After -> extra 15% damage on frozen targets (wut?)

But notting is set on stone, lets wait.

for one, it makes crit more desirable to frost mages, since they don't get free crits now and it brings some more skill back to the class (no one thinks guaranteed crits are hard to pull off). secondly, since it buffs all around damage, that includes buffing the damage a critical strike does, further than it would normally.

also, let's look at PvP. with high resil targets, even shatter doesn't offer free crits (not in high end PvP gear anyway), so this would be an all around damage buff since more damage is favorable to a chance at a crit.

anyway, this is just me talking here, but it seems they gave the frost tree a ton of haste talents which makes using the PvP gear for PvP more desirable. Since the PvP gear of today has nothing but crit on it, this would be a way to circumvent the loss of the free shatter crit.

[flame]

for one, it makes crit more desirable to frost mages, since they don't get free crits now and it brings some more skill back to the class (no one thinks guaranteed crits are hard to pull off). secondly, since it buffs all around damage, that includes buffing the damage a critical strike does, further than it would normally.

also, let's look at PvP. with high resil targets, even shatter doesn't offer free crits (not in high end PvP gear anyway), so this would be an all around damage buff since more damage is favorable to a chance at a crit.

anyway, this is just me talking here, but it seems they gave the frost tree a ton of haste talents which makes using the PvP gear for PvP more desirable. Since the PvP gear of today has nothing but crit on it, this would be a way to circumvent the loss of the free shatter crit.

True, crit becoming more desirable is good.
Don't forget however, that in cataclysm, resil will no longer reduce crit chance

[brirrspliff]

@OP:
no no no. you got it all wrong. frost mages are screwed again, for the 3rd expansion in a row, in pve. no one is interested in pvp, really.. i play quake3 and bad company 2 for "pvp" ;-)

[Swizzle]

True, crit becoming more desirable is good.
Don't forget however, that in cataclysm, resil will no longer reduce crit chance

haven't heard that part, but i'd still rather have an overall damage boost instead of having to rely on crits to deal decent damage.

let's just see how much damage increase ice lance actually gets on frozen targets with this change, shall we?

1x 1.15x 2x 3x 1.06x 1.15x 1.05= 8.83 times normal damage on a frozen target (if used with FoF). if that ice lance would happen to be a crit, it would deal 8.83x 2.03= 17.93 times base damage.

factoring out the new shatter, ice lance would deal (on a FoF charge):
7.68x 2.03= 15.6 times normal damage

new shatter= an ice lance that deals almost 18 times normal damage on FoF crits
old shatter= an ice lance that deals almost 16 times normal damage on FoF crits

[ProTech]

I really hope that mmo-champion will update the cata talent trees they are out of date. As I see FoF no longer threats the target as frozen, so you need to freeze the target to get the Shatter effect and FoF at the same time.

I found this in the official cata forums (post 222): http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...2000&pageNo=12

Piercing Ice: Removed, replaced with Piercing Chill
Piercing Chill: Frostbolt criticals apply chill to 1/2 nearby targets

Shatter: No longer increases crit chance against Frozen targets. Now increases damage by 5/10/15% against Frozen targets.

Fingers of Frost:
- Targets no longer treated as Frozen (this means Shatter is no longer useful in PvE)
- Ice Lance damage increased by 130%
- Deep Freeze may be cast against target
- Deep Freeze damage increased by 15%.

Empowered Frost: Now increases spell power bonus on Frostbolt, Ice Lance and FFB by 7/13/20%.

Brain Freeze: Now also deactivates Arcane Missiles proc.

[Swizzle]

130% increased damage on ice lance? jesus christ they really want to make that spell powerful. FoF seems to be going down the route of a PvE boosting talent, with nice applications for PvP. one thing i hope though is that it still procs along with frostbite in PvP making its functionality stay the same.

[DirewolfX]

Trying to keep Cata change discussion to one thread. Use the one I stickied.