Moonkin Form in Cata

[Moralio]

Make moonkin form a cooldown and I will accept any nerf gladly.

[DrJones]

Suuure, moonkin form is not iconic for balance druids, just like shadowform is not for shadow priests, pet's are just a useless unimportant gimmick for hunters and affliction warlocks realy shouldn't use as much Dot's.

Makes perfect sense.

Yes, that was sarcasm, if you didn't notice.

[Deleted]

Suuure, moonkin form is not iconic for balance druids, just like shadowform is not for shadow priests, pet's are just a useless unimportant gimmick for hunters and affliction warlocks realy shouldn't use as much Dot's.

Makes perfect sense.

Yes, that was sarcasm, if you didn't notice.

And Tree of Life isn't iconic for resto druids? Somehow I don't think Blizzard cares much about "iconic"...

[huth]

ToL was removed for gameplay reasons. Reasons that do not apply to Moonkin Form.(nor to Shadowform, while a holy form would also have been removed, had one existed)
And gameplay > everything in Blizzards design philosophy.

[Madus]

ToL was removed for gameplay reasons. Reasons that do not apply to Moonkin Form.(nor to Shadowform, while a holy form would also have been removed, had one existed)
And gameplay > everything in Blizzards design philosophy.

Yep and for exactly this gameplay they going down with power of passive buff in moonkin form. So we can play more in caster form and using more like balance spells. Its expand balance druid playstyle both in pve and pvp.

[Madus]

Being able to HoT yourself while maintaining the same depth and power of your offensive spells would be imba.

If you want to gripe about something, I would go for druids being resource punished by shapeshifting.

Imba like ele shaman now ?

[Niter]

I seriously do not understand people. Never in the history of Warcraft the Owlkins were spellcasters. Never in druidic history Balance Druids needed to take the form of a Moonkin to be capable of spellcasting. It is not based on lore, it is not supported in-game by anything other than the wishes of crazy developers to give flavour to a spec that nobody played when the form was implemented. The same pattern was followed with Resto Druids and ToL later on... I would much rather have Balance Druids being just Balance Druids. Moonkin is a form some like, some others do not, but it is just a gameplay gimmick anyway.

I do not know how Resto Druids could ever think they got nerfed. They were actually underpowered before, and ToL was the very thing that kept them being good healers. With the form gone, Blizzard can just increase +healing percentage and that is all fine. Plus, they got a new cooldown, which is actually very nice, a dramatic change to a spec that had only NS + HT for a powerful cooldown.

Moonkin Form has stupid problems, aside being an arbitrary creation: it does not let you heal yourself while you are in it. Healing Spells are Nature Spells. So why can't they be cast? Balance Druids shape-shifting into Bear, Cat, their own forms, lose the extra mana they get from Furor. "But Mana is not a concern!". I do not really care about such statement. In order to use our other abilities we lose even more mana. Elemental and Enhancement Shamans do not have such cumbersome feats. I would be very please with the removal of Moonkin Form entirely, and if they wanted to maintain their stupid form, they could add a glyph to those who want it. Replacing the form with a cooldown... I am not sure if that is necessary, but if they wanted to, they could give us the form of REAL spellcasters, like Faerie Dragon, Green Drake, Keeper Of the Grove / Dryad and not the form a bad implemented Owlkin (they looked so much better in WC3!) that was never a spellcaster to begin with.

Let's not even get started about 'our lost armour'. Armour has been increased significantly, but it is not like it was needed. Even Plate users were not being exactly protected by that in PvP and in PvE such question is irrelevant when we got Roots, Cyclone, Heals, Dash (Catform), Nature's Grasp...

As for what we provide, I think Blizzard has been 'secretly lifting our hybrid tax' more and more. We can do competitive DPS nowadays, and if Blizzard provided us more content in which we could help fights go easier with our heals, CC, Bear/Cat interrupts and things like that it would do us greater good than just being in a raid group because of the buffs we provide.

I quite like the way they are going with the buffs. Most groups will have a better chance at having good players instead of perceived optimal combinations of classes commanded by lame players.

[Koosh]

Moonkin is part of being a balance druid. It is one of our most iconic abilities.
Moonkin and balance druid are pretty much synonymous.


Then go play a demonology warlock.

Don't try to change the entire world to fit your needs, adjust your needs to fit into the world.

You enjoy staring at a fat outdated owl graphic rather than seeing your gear? Moonkin form wasn't part of being a balance druid before it was added to the game. To you and every other terribad who rolled a druid to "be a tree" or a moonkin, gtfo of my class. I played balance and resto pre-BC. We didn't have either of those disgusting forms then and we don't want them now.

[huth]

I rolled a druid when the game was just released. I played a druid when both Innervate and Hurricane were 31 point talents.

And Moonkin was added along with AQ, which was quite a bit before BC. It has been a part of being a balance druid for the better part of the last six years.
Back then, nobody rolled a druid to play a moonkin... because nobody rolled a druid to do anything other than heal. Balance druids were virtually nonexistent prior to BC.

[Wigman]

I think OP's trolling, 5% haste may not be much-- only to someone with 0 haste in gear. When you get to the point where it takes too much haste (gearing n gemming) to achieve 1% haste, 5% haste from buff is a godsend and is alotta haste for someone thats sitting at softcap or above.

[Deleted]

I do not know how Resto Druids could ever think they got nerfed. They were actually underpowered before, and ToL was the very thing that kept them being good healers. With the form gone, Blizzard can just increase +healing percentage and that is all fine. Plus, they got a new cooldown, which is actually very nice, a dramatic change to a spec that had only NS + HT for a powerful cooldown.

This is grossly misleading. You not only make it sound that resto druids losing the most powerful anti-CC in the game and a significant amount of armor is not a nerf just because it will not affect raw healing numbers, but in addition that Trees cared being "nerfed" vs losing their entire shapeshift they've played with for years! Everyone understands by now that the context in Cata is different and that the loss or gain of different abilities cannot be seen against the context of the live servers - in a sense this aspect of whether or not they are nerfs is irrelevant.

However, that is very different from simply removing or changing the look & feel of a spec entirely - which is exactly what Blizzard have done. So, you think if Blizzard removed Moonkin shapeshift tomorrow people would be QQ'ing about a loss of 5% haste (+anti-CC and armor) vs the loss of their shapeshift?! Or if playing in the shadow priest spec only required a warrior-like stance change instead of the best looking Form in the game? You're joking right? Some high-end pve raiders or pvp'ers may not give a shit how a class looks or feels as long as it produces competitive numbers (more like as long as its OP ) in everything, but there's more to enjoying a game than numbers, otherwise we would all be playing the glorified spreadsheet with graphics which is EvE Online or card games or something.

Sorry, but I just think you're focussing entirely on the numbers game matters to suit your argument: that essentially druids could look&feel like shamans without totems or mages who can heal and tank or healing warriors without shields and that no one who matters would or should CARE! This is an insane view! Most people rolled their class and played it for months if not years for specific reasons about its playstyle and even if they didn't, given the amount of time they invested into it they would have got well used to it.

You also cannot separate playstyle from look&feel of a class. What would shamans be without totems? Warriors without shields? Paladins without light? Druids without shapeshifting? All of these things could technically be provided in some other way but not without changing look&feel and therefore playstyle. The only reason why many resto druid mains will continue to play (almost come what may, just like everyone else) is because they have already invested a lot of time on their character, that they are needed as a druid anyway (we do bring a lot of buff/debuffs), and that it takes months to create a new character. But you can be sure that many resto druids died a little inside when they heard ToL was being removed (and that Moonkin was not despite it being every bit a passive shapeshift and not a Form same as ToL!).

TL;DR. WoW is not just a numbers game. People care or grow to care very much about the playstyle of their classes. Look&Feel is every bit a part of playstyle as much as anything else.

[Niter]

All of it

Friend, I just pointed out a few things that come up most commonly. Especially since Blizzard is changing how healing is done right now. They want us to cast more instead of using Rejuvenation + Wild Growth to do 90%+ of what we do in game. The Resto Druid himself will not lose power, it is in fact gaining a CD. Everybody who could think they will be broken when it comes to performance is not thinking properly. Armour is not a big deal, most severe damage nowadays just simply goes through armour. It will be better in PvP for those who can play more offensively and apply pressure. Resto Druids needed that and they will probably be able to take part in higher arena teams, they will be able to play 5v5 matches (for years Druids were the kings of 2v2, but in 3v3 they lost value and in 5v5 they were somewhat rare).

As for the 'flavour', I have been playing a Druid since the game first came out. ToL was not there until TBC, and even then it was not even viable until you were past Kara. That means that a very small part of the community could be so attached to it back then. In PvP, even more so!, ToL would root the player. Resto Druids were amazing with their movement and the ability to change to Bear, Charge, Bash, Travel Form, drink and all that combined with how HoTs worked made Resto Druids a top choice. ToL would not be used at all.

WotLK was the xpac that brought popularity to it. In terms of 'people grow attached to the looks, design and feel', I guess some could argue that ToL was not needed before and they did not like it when it was implemented. It is really a toss up. See, I do not dislike the form at all, I liked it very much, especially the dance! However, I must think straight about it. I love the Druid Class, I have 2 of them being lvl 80s because I like all 4 specs and I enjoy them being different, like they had their own personalities.

However, I like things to 'justified by lore' somewhat. Druids taking the form of trees to heal? That would be new. Being able to mimic a Tree Of Life for a short period of time? Great if it is giving you an edge over other healers at that point. Turning into a tree to perform as good as the others? Then that would mean that Druids are bad spellcasters innately or something like that. Druids shapeshift to gain access to abilities their regular forms cannot provide. I do not really care about people who think that shapeshifting is all there is to it because Druids were never like that and I honestly hate developers making such changes just because they think the game needs something more, forgetting about lore and to 'justify' their changes. Whenever they do that, they create stupid chimeras like Death Coil (Warlock spell) VS Death Coil (Death Knight spell).

Moonkin Form is another of their creations and I would love to see it go, and if the community would cry over it, a glyph can always be added. I know I would take both glyphs for both forms (Moonkin and old ToL), just for the sake of having the forms. As for the way it would be played, I would never look back to being forced into a form to be a better spellcaster. That is just bad lore and a punishment to Druids that know how to use all their tools properly.

I gotta get some sleep now... Z z Z z

[huth]

However, I like things to 'justified by lore' somewhat.

You're in the wrong game then. Blizzard builds the Lore around the game, not the other way around.
Gameplay always takes precedence over lore and Blizz isn't above changing the lore to fit the game, if necessary.

[Madus]

Only thing what some balance druids wanna is increase in gameplay.
It mean that we will not be in one retard looking form with 8 spells for a whole expansion, just because its giving some passive buffs.
Moonkin form should be optional in a raid where those passive buffs are from other players.
It should be like just 1-2 totems buffs not more or a Cooldown. But we are redhaired child of druid class so we cannot have same love like restos.

[Deleted]

Moonkin Form is another of their creations and I would love to see it go, and if the community would cry over it, a glyph can always be added. I know I would take both glyphs for both forms (Moonkin and old ToL), just for the sake of having the forms. As for the way it would be played, I would never look back to being forced into a form to be a better spellcaster. That is just bad lore and a punishment to Druids that know how to use all their tools properly.

Ok, fair enough at least on that huge inconsistency we're agreed.

[Jambo]

You enjoy staring at a fat outdated owl graphic rather than seeing your gear? Moonkin form wasn't part of being a balance druid before it was added to the game. To you and every other terribad who rolled a druid to "be a tree" or a moonkin, gtfo of my class. I played balance and resto pre-BC. We didn't have either of those disgusting forms then and we don't want them now.

From looking at the current druid gear, yes I do. Tbh I love moonkin form, one of the main reasons my main is a druid is because it's a shape shifter. Your comment about ele shamans being able to heal themselves while doing damage. They can only do straight heals, which is nothing compared to what a druid could do with, rejuv regrowth and lifebloom HoTs on at the same time.
At the end of the day if you don't like moonkin form, dont spec into it,,,and enjoy your crap dps.

[Madus]

They can only do straight heals, which is nothing compared to what a druid could do with, rejuv regrowth and lifebloom HoTs on at the same time.

Can you explain us this with some evidence? Because low dispelable hots with leather armor vs casted heals with mail armor and shield is imho same.

[Juvencus]

and remember Wrath's casting time has been increased so more haste is always welcome where crit isn't important now for Eclipse

[Deleted]

Ill just jump in right here.

Crit to haste

Currently, on the live servers, crit is worth more than haste. Thats just how it is. And this is considering haste only (largely) affects starfire after we reach our soft caps. So right now, if you lost 5% crit and got 5% haste, you would increase you damage. Ah yes, thats completely terribad! When Cataclysm comes, our haste will affect starfire, wrath (because of its increased cast time, it is unlikely to reach GCD until really-late endgame raids), and our dots. Sure, crit will affect our dots as well, and scale better with starfire, but we are no longer dependant on crit to proc eclipse. We are bombarded with haste, and this is a good thing. Haste is good, you know?

No mana problems, right?

Yeah, we have no mana problems. Right now. But come cataclysm, you'll probably lose the mana regen mechanic in moonkin form, which means that you can say goodbye to 80% of your mana regen. Never used an innervate? Trust that you will begin to want it now. Don't want mana talents? Im sure you'll find that they are much more awesome when you actually need mana.

Moonkin form

Some of us are perfectly fine with being a giant chicken. Some arent. Thats fine as well. But calling out for a removal of moonkin form becuase it "doesn't fit lore" is an argument thats begging to be brought back to the stoneage. "We aren't supposed to be able to kill <boss>, he's an immortal". Well, suprise suprise, we just happened to manage to pull it off anyways, I guess we're just that strong. Lore changes, new things gets created. Is it so unrealistic that somewhere along the lines, druids learned to harness the power of the owlkins? Probably not. After all, its a game - we can make things up as we go along

[huth]

You got crit and haste confused in the beginning of the first paragraph.

Should be "haste is worth more than crit" which is true when both are over the softcap.

And don't forget that we now get Dreamstate baseline through specialization and also gain 12% of our maximum mana every time we trigger an eclipse.