WoWTal 12694, Reputation Enchantments, Blue Posts

[Sunseeker]

Good fury warriors are on top of the DPS meters in BiS gear.

*link*

If by top you mean "barely", or "I only look at Blood Council fights", then yes. There are 4 fights on which Fury Warriors are top DPS(according to your logs), and on deathwhisper it's obvious because of all the great potentional for AOE cleaves/whirlwinds. The same is true if you tank all 3 BPC bosses near each other, or even just two of them. Outside of that we've got mages for three fights, and one for hunters and one for shammies. Taking the actual numbers into consideration, fury warriors only sit AT BEST 100dps higher than the class right below them, most of the charts indicate that they're within 5-10 dps of the class below them.

These charts do not indicate that fury warriors are breaking the curve, maybe pushing it a little bit, but certainly not far-and above the BEST dps. The argument that "fury warriors are top DPS and that's bad" is stupid. What part of "fury" and "WARrior" doesn't suggest high DPS?

[Typhron]

Are you implying Fury Warriors were not top raid DPS for the entirety of Vanilla raid content with +weapon skill? Wow, just wow.


Then play a ret paladin and stop whining. Warriors are balanced around a certain level of rage generation. That's the whole reason they're underpowered in poor gear and overpowered in end-game gear. It's been that way since Vanilla. Finally they're actually going to try and fix it.

Or you can whine that come 81 you can't mash buttons constantly and say how terrible it is.

QFT. Sounds like a lot of Warriors just need to L2Warrior.

[rainCZ]

I bet on shaman.

[Alraml]

If by top you mean "barely", or "I only look at Blood Council fights", then yes. There are 4 fights on which Fury Warriors are top DPS(according to your logs), and on deathwhisper it's obvious because of all the great potentional for AOE cleaves/whirlwinds. The same is true if you tank all 3 BPC bosses near each other, or even just two of them. Outside of that we've got mages for three fights, and one for hunters and one for shammies. Taking the actual numbers into consideration, fury warriors only sit AT BEST 100dps higher than the class right below them, most of the charts indicate that they're within 5-10 dps of the class below them.

Your post is confusing. Barely top of the DPS isn't top of the DPS?

Fury warriors are only 100 DPS higher than 2nd on the list, that makes them not top of the DPS was the general jist I got from your post

[Rukari]

What part of "fury" and "WARrior" doesn't suggest high DPS?

I guess by that logic Destruction WARlock should be the highest dps.

[Bonham]

I think its total bullshit that we are losing the hybrid build!!! I love the fact that while farming or leveling my lock can have a fel guard out and still do alot of dmg. forcing me to go all demo just to get the fel guard is bullshit because a full demo build sucks and you cant raid with it and your dmg sucks overall. Guess Ill never play my lock again. Thanks blizzard for screwing something else up.

Mr. Hairballs, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[wildi]

Hybrid Builds

Hybrid Builds are fine, learn to balance.

[Snoogle]

I think its total bullshit that we are losing the hybrid build!!! I love the fact that while farming or leveling my lock can have a fel guard out and still do alot of dmg. forcing me to go all demo just to get the fel guard is bullshit because a full demo build sucks and you cant raid with it and your dmg sucks overall. Guess Ill never play my lock again. Thanks blizzard for screwing something else up.

That's bullshit, demonology isn't that far behind.

[Sunseeker]

I guess by that logic Destruction WARlock should be the highest dps.

I said "high" DPS, not "highest". When it comes to BiS gear, end-game content, all the DPS classes and specs should be close. Higher in certain situations, such as when there is a lot of AOE, lower in some, when there is only one target. Sometimes the warrior will be top, sometimes the mage will, sometimes the pally will. None of them should be the top DPS ALL the time. The way Blizz keeps talking about warriors is like somehow they're NOT supposed to be high DPSers, that they're never supposed to top the charts, even when doing what they're best at.

Your post is confusing. Barely top of the DPS isn't top of the DPS?

Fury warriors are only 100 DPS higher than 2nd on the list, that makes them not top of the DPS was the general jist I got from your post

If you are really going to tell me that when average DPS on those charts is sitting around 15k, that 50-100 dps makes a class so insanely OP that it needs a nerf, then you have failed to understand my point. I'm talking about variances, if the average DPS is 15k, with spike being around 20k and low being around 8, then a Fury Warrior doing 15,155 puts them well within the variance. If warriors were on average doing 2-3k more damage, then yes, they would be massively out of of balance with the rest of the classes.

Managing Fury rage more means attacking less, attacking less means less DPS. Unless "normalizing" rage generation is so amazingly perfected that a warrior is able to generate enough rage to fight, not quite enough rage to do everything, and more than enough to do nothing, which from all Blizz says, it doesnt, then what the end result will be is that warriors will dps less. And that means nobody will want them around, and people who aren't wanted won't play.

If Blizzard wanted to fine-tune warriors, then it would be a matter of adjusting the damage that attacks do. Perhaps even altering the equation to include diminishing returns on how much benefit each special attack you do gets from your attack power. But Blizzard doesn't want to "fine tune" warriors, it wants to smash their faces into the dirt and then spit on them.

[Kyocere]

Another day, another big Warrior post. Somebody just lemme know when the xpac is out so I don't have to waste time reading about Warriors.

[Noomz]

I'm wondering why anyone would want to bring a shaman now. What's the point of a shaman?

[Julian Rayne]

Healers don't get penalised because they have a DPS spec, neither do tanks ... so why the hell should DPS?

Penalised with respect to what? All healers and tanks have DPS specs. There aren't any pure Tank or pure Healer classes that you can compare hybrids to and say they're penalised.

[Alayea]

I bet on shaman.

I have no idea which class will (possibly) be gaining Concentration Aura in Cataclysm, but I really hope it's not my main's...

[Sollace]

If by top you mean "barely", or "I only look at Blood Council fights", then yes. There are 4 fights on which Fury Warriors are top DPS(according to your logs), and on deathwhisper it's obvious because of all the great potentional for AOE cleaves/whirlwinds. The same is true if you tank all 3 BPC bosses near each other, or even just two of them. Outside of that we've got mages for three fights, and one for hunters and one for shammies. Taking the actual numbers into consideration, fury warriors only sit AT BEST 100dps higher than the class right below them, most of the charts indicate that they're within 5-10 dps of the class below them.

These charts do not indicate that fury warriors are breaking the curve, maybe pushing it a little bit, but certainly not far-and above the BEST dps. The argument that "fury warriors are top DPS and that's bad" is stupid. What part of "fury" and "WARrior" doesn't suggest high DPS?

Seriously? Look at 25 heroic Icc. Almost every single fight is either all fury warriors or all mages. Look where the dks are? I see more enhance shamans than dks there. Warriors are more than fine.

[Deleted]

I can understand blizzard saying that BM hunters etc are failed specs, however I found that being a BM hunter in pve gave me a lot of advantages on certain fights, especially ones that required a lot of movement such as the blood princes or deathwhisper. It also helped to be able to break out of vile gas on festergut (or whatever it's called, the stuff that makes you puke) My pet was always doing damage while I moved into position, kiting or being CC'd. Gearing that spec was difficult because I had to try and avoid haste gear and avoid agi in favour or AP or Arm Pen which is hard, but I was pushing over 10k dps back when the ICC buff was only 15% with roughly 5.7k gearscore. Not the bestest ever, but far from fail.

The majority of players play their spec because it's been mathematically the best, but some of us just play a spec because that's what we enjoy; and provided we're not useless to a raid we're happy enough to lose 1k dps. I consider myself a hardcore player, but I would never have given up my BM spec for anyone. I just love having a huge red t-rex

EDIT: Before people start rushing to call me a nub and banging on about trash dps, I have recount set to only collect data from boss fights.

[1sickpuppy]

Concentration Aura on another class? Priests, they are two specs of healing and would greatly benefit from it when Paladins aren't around.

[anaalius]

wtb red skin orc !

[Girlyman]

http://www.sonsofthestorm.com
Was updated BTW.

[Sunseeker]

Seriously? Look at 25 heroic Icc. Almost every single fight is either all fury warriors or all mages. Look where the dks are? I see more enhance shamans than dks there. Warriors are more than fine.

Alright, so you support a mage nerf then too? Deathbringer, PP, BQ and about 50/50 split on LK is all mages.

In most single-target cases, fury or mages outpace each other by around 500dps. Instead of slapping these classes down, why not improve the output of other classes?

[FireryRage]

Managing Fury rage more means attacking less, attacking less means less DPS. Unless "normalizing" rage generation is so amazingly perfected that a warrior is able to generate enough rage to fight, not quite enough rage to do everything, and more than enough to do nothing, which from all Blizz says, it doesnt, then what the end result will be is that warriors will dps less. And that means nobody will want them around, and people who aren't wanted won't play.

If Blizzard wanted to fine-tune warriors, then it would be a matter of adjusting the damage that attacks do. Perhaps even altering the equation to include diminishing returns on how much benefit each special attack you do gets from your attack power. But Blizzard doesn't want to "fine tune" warriors, it wants to smash their faces into the dirt and then spit on them.

You realize you just pointed out how not having full rage will be solved...
So they normalize rage. Meaning you don't see so much discrepancy between low gear rage gen and high gear rage gen, and generally forcing you to manage rage instead of generally ignoring it.
Your argument is this will result in less attacks, thus less dps.
Yet you just followed up your argument pointing out blizz could change the damage of abilities.
See what you just did there?
Less attacks, ok. How do we solve this insurmountable issue of there being less attacks yet maintaining decent dps? Make the attacks hit harder. Done.
Seriously, if any one dps class is consistently lagging in dps, all they have to do is tweak those specialization bonuses. Remember those, the +8% damage ones you get? Yeah. Your class doing 5% less damage in general than others? All they have to do is bump up that specialization bonus by 5% or so. Problem solved.

Seriously, it bugs me when people make arguments, and then completely counter their own arguments with another one, all while pretending both are supporting each other.