Going blood with shadowmourne

[Maggeddon]

I posted to make sure no one would read your post and be mislead.

Your advice on socket bonuses was really off. You mentioned a 'soft cap' for ArP which is a thing of the past, and not applicable since Ulduar. As already mentioned, your numbers were off. Very easy for someone to google this thread and get the wrong information. If you're going to get defensive about it then just don't post unless you're sure.

Still no reason to act like an asshat. Being mature and saying that actually, these are the right numbers is a better way to go than just insulting him.

[wobbrocker]

The only DKs in the top 10 for any fight in ICC 25 Heroic are all Unholy. Topping the meter on any fight outside of 25 Heroic is sort of pointless since the top players in the top progression guilds are no longer doing those other fights and probably haven't been doing them for a while. Those top players where doing those non-Heroic fights with out the 30% buff so someone beating them with that buff is like saying you beat up a blind kid with one arm.

Unholy is the top DPS spec for DKs, with good players being able to do nearly the same DPS as frost. Blood is only worth it as a tank or lvling spec now even if you can get ArP capped with Shadowmourne. Some people still DPS as Blood because they like it and may do the same or better DPS then the people they play with but it is not a good DPS spec any more.

umm sorry but your wrong, Frost BiS is still higher dps then Unholy BiS.

[Underskilled]

umm sorry but your wrong, Frost BiS is still higher dps then Unholy BiS.

"I'm right because I said so."

Mind backing up your claims with evidence?

Off Topic: @Scudamore, Blood does bring +10% AP, which is technically utility, though usually it's covered by a MM hunter.

[Ashareth]

Yeah because being off by 2% (after stating i wasn't sure of the numbers you know, L2R) is terribly offensive to your leetness....
Oh and the "soft/hard cap" problem is still current since for most specs using ArP it's what makes it good or not to gem ArP....


I'll wait with great impatience for you to make a gear build with ArP gemming in Ulduar gear that is better than gemming Strenght, all that without fiddling with the soft cap concept....

Wobbrocker>> WoL ICC HM top charts begs to disagree with you, pretty much all the 100 tops dks are Unholy with Shadowmourne. Without Shadowmourne it's something else, but with it Unholy got an edge, and since it's not available to Frost DW....

[Foibles]

If you're responding to Scudamore's comment that the soft cap hasn't mattered since Ulduar, that's because ToC gear was close to hitting the hard cap for many people if I remember right.

[Ashareth]

Being able to reach the hard cap (which didn't exist at that time and was put in late by Blizzard because ArP was too good) don't make the concept of soft cap irrelevant at all.

Soft Cap/Hard cap is still current because :
- you don't gem ArP EVER if you can't reach the soft cap (ie : ArP on gear/gems + trinklet procs gets you to the hard cap)
- you can't reach roughly 85% ArP without trinklet proc (depends on spec) or better the hard cap (depends on the class/spec once again, for some it's not viable if you can't reach the hard cap, for some it's viable once you can reache 85/90% ArP without proc)

[Wingwraith]

Why are you people talking about ArP soft caps? There are no currently relevant ArP proc trinkets.

[Rasengu]

I can't believe no one has commented on this yet. Shadowmourne outdpsed by a rogue?

Was thinking thr exact same thing

[Ashareth]

Why are you people talking about ArP soft caps? There are no currently relevant ArP proc trinkets.

Define : Relevant.

Sorry to tell you that but not everyone is at the same level of gear, and not everyone got the drops he needs. There is a whole lot of people still floating around the level of gear where that question arise : when should i switch to ArP Gemming ? When should i drop my ArP trinklet (like Mjolnir Runestone).

Hell there is people in guilds that replaced a DC : G by the Hallion trinklet on the first kill because they didn't had the chance to do so before...

[Scudamore]

Being able to reach the hard cap (which didn't exist at that time and was put in late by Blizzard because ArP was too good) don't make the concept of soft cap irrelevant at all.

Soft Cap/Hard cap is still current because :
- you don't gem ArP EVER if you can't reach the soft cap (ie : ArP on gear/gems + trinklet procs gets you to the hard cap)
- you can't reach roughly 85% ArP without trinklet proc (depends on spec) or better the hard cap (depends on the class/spec once again, for some it's not viable if you can't reach the hard cap, for some it's viable once you can reache 85/90% ArP without proc)

I don't know why you're continuing to argue for this 'soft cap' thing. No one should be gemming for a 'soft cap' in CURRENT content. Unless you can prove that a few ArP gems to reach 'soft cap' and hard cap while that trinket is proc'd (which you can't) - stop promoting it! You will just confuse people.

[Kooshkrusher]

i cant believe you failed to read he aint got the lolmourne yet.

You failed to read obviously, the post he was quoting was a "blood spec with shadowmourne" getting out dpsed by rogues.

[Exclusive]

I have Shadow's Edge

[kerwyn]

Being able to reach the hard cap (which didn't exist at that time and was put in late by Blizzard because ArP was too good) don't make the concept of soft cap irrelevant at all.

Soft Cap/Hard cap is still current because :
- you don't gem ArP EVER if you can't reach the soft cap (ie : ArP on gear/gems + trinklet procs gets you to the hard cap)
- you can't reach roughly 85% ArP without trinklet proc (depends on spec) or better the hard cap (depends on the class/spec once again, for some it's not viable if you can't reach the hard cap, for some it's viable once you can reache 85/90% ArP without proc)

Let me put it this way. 99% of people worrying about ArP geming aren't using a trinket with an ArP proc. There's only one I'd even consider reasonable to have today (as the others drop from shit nobody kills) and that's NES. NES is a terrible trinket generally. Chances are if you are using NES you're not in a position to have enough ArP for geming it to be considered.

[Ashareth]

Because no one ever keep old proc trinklets right ? (i sure do, and i'm probably not the only one...). Like i keep trinklets i don't use on a regular basis for tanking (i've got something like 4/5 different ones on my dk and pally, and i don't have either the Sindra25 and Putri10 ones (damn thing only drop when i'm a dps and the tank(s) always need them ).

[Shiira]

You don't even need arp gems to cap with a trinket proc. And the arp proc trinkets are generally not worth using these days anyway, so unless you have had absolutely horrible luck they won't be getting used.

[Apostolic]

So, for all you whinny little b..... ok. With the POSTED WoL the following has been discovered.

1. Blood came out with 20036 (with shadowmorne)
2. Frost came out with 20002
3. Unholy came out with 19465 (with shadowmorne)

This was on a Saurfang H25 kill. Only the TOP dps, not the average of the top DPS of those specs.

If you have Shadowmorne and are close the the ArPen cap, go Blood.

[Scudamore]

So, for all you whinny little b..... ok. With the POSTED WoL the following has been discovered.

1. Blood came out with 20036 (with shadowmorne)
2. Frost came out with 20002
3. Unholy came out with 19465 (with shadowmorne)

This was on a Saurfang H25 kill. Only the TOP dps, not the average of the top DPS of those specs.

If you have Shadowmorne and are close the the ArPen cap, go Blood.

Blood inflates numbers slightly on Saurfang due to adds. You also need to go into logs and look at external CDs. Unholy SM has been dominating Blood throughout ICC and I don't see how the 30% buff and potentially some 284 pieces would change that. I will keep an open mind but I don't see anything that really proves Blood is the best choice.

[kerwyn]

Blood inflates numbers slightly on Saurfang due to adds. You also need to go into logs and look at external CDs. Unholy SM has been dominating Blood throughout ICC and I don't see how the 30% buff and potentially some 284 pieces would change that. I will keep an open mind but I don't see anything that really proves Blood is the best choice.

Only slightly, heart strike does very little damage to them so the only real "inflation" comes from sudden doom procs. I'd say spreading diseases for ebon plague is a bigger inflation than death coil procs.

[Shelly]

I don't know why you're continuing to argue for this 'soft cap' thing. No one should be gemming for a 'soft cap' in CURRENT content. Unless you can prove that a few ArP gems to reach 'soft cap' and hard cap while that trinket is proc'd (which you can't) - stop promoting it! You will just confuse people.

While I agree with you that anyone in the works towards getting a Shadowmourne should only be worried about the hard-cap, his information was still relative to the debate. If you require hit-rating (dubious) then the Grim Toll is still a great ArP trinket and Mjolnir's is still in use as well.

More importantly though, more people than just ICC25 raiders that are only in the current content read these forums, for them the discussion of ArP soft and hard caps is still pretty important. Someone may have a DK they just hit 80 on and the information for them would be useful and it's better that they read it here than create some topic and get laughed or yelled at. Ideally they should be reading the FAQ, but ideals are seldom reality.

[Apostolic]

Only slightly, heart strike does very little damage to them so the only real "inflation" comes from sudden doom procs. I'd say spreading diseases for ebon plague is a bigger inflation than death coil procs.

I was going to state that. 1-2 HS is about equal to a third disease on 5 other targets.