Paying a raid leader

[Nide]

This came across my mind while thinking about restarting my guild in cataclysm, one of the problems we had was raid leading; I could never keep one and I'm not a good raid leader myself.
One of the reasons my guild couldn't keep doing twenty-fives was because our experienced raid leaders hated doing it. It felt unrewarding to them and just like a huge burden and lots responsibilities. You can't spam trade for a dependable raid leader.

How do you have more motivated raid leaders and keeping one from burning out? One of the thoughts that came across my mind- they're not paid!
Pretty much all raid leaders right now work for free and for the love of raiding and the guild, no wonder most of them burn out; they're powered by love! They're working and not getting paid, that's just silly.
It's rare finding a good raid leader or even having someone willing to try raid leading for the first time, even harder keeping one around for long unless they're a little crazy and really like playing a cat herder simulator.

Now if you started paying a raid leader say, gold per boss or per raid maybe even perhaps the raid could all choose to tip a raid leader an amount, the better he leads and the more bosses they kill the more people will be willing to pay him.
Even going as far as paying for the raid leader's subscription if he had perfect raiding attendance for the month. I think that would motivate a raid leader to work well and feel rewarded.

Once a raid leader starts getting paid for his efforts a new mind set comes in, a mind set of an entrepreneur. He'll soon try everything to improve the effectiveness of the raid.
Instead of ranting about a boss over voice chat, he might start writing tailored made strategy guides for the guild.
Instead of looking for pugs when the raid isn't full, he might employ well geared players and pay them enough so he's still making a profit.
Instead of just filling up the guild roster; when recruiting players he'll want to interview and test them more vigorously, maybe even give the officers a format for what questions to ask an interviewee.
The raid leader will start innovating and will feel rewarded for doing so.

_______________

What are your thoughts on paying a raid leader? Has anyone done this before?

So many questions about how to pay a raid leader and methods. What are your ideas and opinions?

[grimkiller]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to pay in-game gold.
The problem I see is that everyone and their grandmothers would think they are raid leaders and demand to be paid, only to lead in a sub-par way.

Honestly, you don't need an official "raid leader", you just need someone to say a few things here and there, andthat can be done by a group of people.
If you have scrubs who can't learn their class, read about the encounters, flask/food buff, etc. then they don't need to be raiding.
Nothing drives me as bat shit crazy as an asshole who, just as the ready check pops up, says "what do I do? I've never been here before".
I can't tell you howmany times I've said "for fuck's sake" while raiding...

In my guild, we have a leader, but he really doesn't say a whole lot because everyone, for the most part, knows what to do anyway.
The ones that don't, well, they just live to irritate me.

But anyway, if you have a problem with dedicated raid leaders and your guild requires a solid one to keep order, I see no problem with dropping them some gold, guaranteeing they get dibs on X item if it drops, etc.

[Nide]

Well its in twenty fives that it helps to have a good raid leader, all following one leader in a large raid is a good idea. I hate when there's five players chattering on vent during a boss fight.

[deadjack]

I don't know if that's been try in your guild before but you can always split the burden of the "raid lead"

My guild have it split in 2:
1 guy make the grp and manage the motivation + decision on which boss we go on
1 other do the fight explaination and loot

[niteline]

in a Guild officers will stand up eventually and the same with your RL. I used to do everything in the guild i was officer in, untill i complaint about that.
Other officer started the invites and all we discussed was the number of healers and who went tanking. i still did the majority of RL untill we noticed other people stand out and let them take care.
At that point your job is more to see wich ppl make mistakes and do micro management both in your raid and in your guild.
Just start doing it give it 4 weeks and other ppl will stand out. Someone told me once; Leaders are born, Great leaders have learned from Leaders and the best leaders know when to step back.

[strossus001]

Raid leader is a fake position. There is no reason for it. It's a title for those that feel they need to be separated from the dregs.

In this expansion of tankspot, elitist jerks, and mmo-champion, there is no reason for a raid leader. Everyone should know their role, each enemy's abilities, and the loot they need. If they don't know one or more of these things, get rid of them.

What I think you're looking for is a guy to say "hey, it's time to fucking raid."

[Sarcasm]

Raid leader is a fake position. There is no reason for it. It's a title for those that feel they need to be separated from the dregs.

And let me guess, your guild is still stuck farming 10/12 normal modes each week?

The most efficient way to raid is to have one person in charge and coordinating 25 people. There is NO argument you can make that will prove that incorrect. The most rewarding thing about raiding is killing hard bosses, which you will struggle to do without a raid leader (for the sake of argument, we will say a "coordinator").

In this expansion of tankspot, elitist jerks, and mmo-champion, there is no reason for a raid leader. Everyone should know their role, each enemy's abilities, and the loot they need. If they don't know one or more of these things, get rid of them.

There is a big difference between knowing what to do and actually doing it. You can have everyone doing the right thing, but you need them staying focused doing it in sync. This is the coordinator's job.

Once you get in to heroics, you can comment.

[Cerus]

I raid lead and I don't need gold. I raid lead because I love doing it (yeah it can be very stressful) and I don't need gold cuz well - who does anymore? Thousands of gold a week available if you do more than jump around Dalaran on your mount.

[Zao]

Bad idea from a psychologic PoV.
(Not sure how the experiment was called, but it was from Festinger for those of you interested in behavioural psychology)
Simply said: A RL that gets payed would feel compelled to do raidleading for the gold, instead of doing it simply because he likes to do it. At least that's what the theory says, and it sounds correct.

Also: move to the correct boards

[Longwoodÿ]

Yeah, my current guild doesn't really have a raid leader & I have been in different environments when it comes to leaders; care bear where the guild will get it done when it gets done, will basically call you out on every little detail and get mad at you if you don't fix it, and where the officers basically did everything without one single person.

Raid Leader is usually only "good" when you first do a boss (in my opinion at least). They should prepare the final details of which strat you're going to use for that boss, be the one who calls out whatever DXE shows when people can't watch it themself, call out when to stop DPS & such, and lastly be the one you mark and follow on fights like Lich King.

Officers, GMs, & Raid Leaders are basically baby sitters for a guild before the days over with. When you're doing 11/12 HM for the last 8 months it really doesn't matter, but it does take somewhat of a decent "leader" to make a guild get pushed to the limits it needs to make it.

I've seen numerous guilds survive based on their recruiter, making sure the guild has a nice structure for people quitting, slack on DPS / Healing / Tanking, and fights that require a certain comp or # of people to filter through (Lich King & Halion).

Not worth to pay someone to do such an easy task in the game. Anyone with half a brain can make judgement calls and read DXE or Deadly Boss Mods. And 2-3 months & so on a Raid Leader typically becomes useless when you're farming the same bosses for, lets say, 10 months now?

[Sarcasm]

but it does take somewhat of a decent "leader" to make a guild et pushed to the limits it needs to make it.

This is the point I was trying to make but couldn't find the right words.

In terms of farming easy content, you need a raid leader about as much as a pug needs one. In terms of pushing for progression, a raid leader is essential.

[Warriorfury]

Horrible idea, certain cases would arise, such as; -

"Hmm, I don't really need money because I'm already gold capped + I hate farming ICC25 HC and wiping on LK all the time, so I just won't show up untill next reset and get more gear."

and as for paying for his subscription... that's even more absurd if you ask me - paying for someones subscription for something that they do for FUN?

Also if we were to pay our 'raid leaders' then random 10 & 25 man guilds will form just for people to get free gold or even free membership.

Being a raid leader shouldn't be a chore - they've earnt that rank for a reason - if your guilds falling apart because one leaves of 'stress' then get a better one.

[Zues]

I raid lead because I'm competent and get a few bonuses on rolls. If raid fails, leader is blamed, so a little extra compensation always helps. Or just backing up the leader usually is enough to get his confidence back after a wipe. Unless it's a wipe due to stupidity/inexperience on his part. /Replace

[Deleted]

I used to be in a (semi-) random raid (semi as in after 5 or 6 runs or so, there was a core of 20-25 ppl who were there every week), and I were much liked the way they did it (afore-mentioned 2 ppl separation, one for the preparations for bosses and strategy, one for loot and itc tank management). They didn't put themselves before others when it came to looting, I think they sometimes got a saronite or so, nothing anyone in the raid would complain about.
Leading-wise it was a good way, everyone could say on ts when they needed sth or had something to add, but in fight it was restricted to "xxx impaled/need innervate/taunt now" for anyone but them, which was very effective.
So as in "paying" raid leaders, if you know someone competent and willing and you think it improves your raid, do it - anyway there are already enough "LFM icc25 - item X locked"posts in /2


OffTopic: Lingwoody I am so stealing your avatar

[Rosham]

Similar to what others have had said, split the job down if your finding the people that step up to it are getting burnt out. The guild I'm in does this, its split into the raid leader, then melee/healer/ranged/tank co-ordinators who do the micro management of their specific area. It takes some of the stress off the raid leader as they create the overall plan/strategy for the evening and then it gets filtered down via the co-ordinators to make up the correct comps to cover the buffs needed for each area, whether to drop melee for ranged, more/less healers. Whilst a raid leader should be expected to have an understanding of each area in the raid, I wouldn't ever demand they know the ins and outs of all the classes within the raid, so having people further down the chain to deal with questions that concern melee or ranged DPS saves the RL a whole load of pink screening.

[HavokHeart]

While it would be nice to get paid to use my natural skills of barking orders and calling people idiots over vent I have to say no to this idea. I can make enough pugging a few GDKP runs i dont need your gold.

[Inos]

yeah splitting the leading does help. you make one #1 person with help. my guild has me as main leader. im DPS so i explain the general fight and dps in detail. my 2nd is a tank so he explains the tanking stratt. and my 3rd is a healer so he does the heal stratt. it really seems to work

[uga-buga]

my guild got 2 people leading the 25man, changing from time to time to make sure they dont get "exhausted". (im the stand-in among them, taking over when the main leader dont feel like leading)
heck even when she is leading im still helping out, getting people, telling tactics, sorting loot if she dont want to.

paying for raid leading? hell no. it should not be needed
is it stressful? yes, but dont have to.

if your raid leader is stressed about leading 25man then start shouting at your guildies. if they just help then theres no reason to get stressed

[Uphir]

Ok, here my experience/views on this and I was raid lead / senior officer in my guild up until 11/12 normal and 6/12 heroic before I left that group. Instead of pay, why not show the RL a little bit of gratitude for the crap they have to put up with? Maybe I'm the one strange person out there... but I could care less about gold, I care more about having a good reputation. Everyone that plays knows when they see certain people post LFM in trade for a raid whether it be ICC10, ToC25, etc that they are a good leader *and the opposite for bad ones* and that alone is priceless

[Deleted]

a "thanks to the leader for the nice run" in TS before you leave can work wonders