Return to Graveyard, Halls of Origination, Gear Scaling, Blue Posts

[HikariOblivion]

Spirit Beasts are going to be glorious for soloing, between the heal and the str/agi buff. Maybe not extreme soloing that requires tenacity, but levelling and old dungeons, certainly.

I absolutely ADORE that they finally made Spirit Beasts awesome!

[quras]

Your trying to look at it as an individual and not as a raid group.

Over the course of a 15 minute fight, assuming you go all the way to the enrage timer, you are talking about 135-180k more total damage. Or roughly .1% of HM LK's HP.

If you had 16 DPS in a 25 man raid group hitting ust 1% extra, it changes the numbers drastically (Many times there are 2-3 talents that provide 1%). Your hypothetical 135K-180K now becomes 2,160,000 - 2,880,00 est. Thats significant DPS even when looking at a 100 million health pool. I've seen many Heroic PP fights end with roughly that much health left and it results in a wipe.

All the little 1% add up from every player and missing out on them is a mistake. To say it's a "statistically insignificant DPS increase" is a fallacy. When dealing with millions of hit points. (baring that person knows how to play in the overall scheme of things - priority, raid awareness and such).

TL;DR: You can't skip all the 1% DPS talents. You can skip 1 or 2.

Thats very true to some extent but just how many raiders in a group can you take and miss out of all those 1% increases? If all toons had 4 talents of 1% and you had 10 people miss half of them is it worth having a raid miss out on that increased DPS? I can't see how it would be a good thing for the benefit of raiding. You need those talents.

You do realize he was talking about a theoretical 1% dps increase

There are some talents that are direct increases and not so theoretical. I don't think it does a raid group any good to skip the DPS increase talents even if they are 1%. Were not talking about increased stamina talent, making you live longer so you have more DPS time. Thats theoretical. There talking about dropping those stray points into talents that offer a direct DPS increase. You can't just bypass them cause you want to take a talent thats for pvp or just for flavor. To many raiders do that in a raid group and suddenly your down a significant amount of damage.

[swissaccount]

poor chimeras got nerfed

[jontaxe]

Your trying to look at it as an individual and not as a raid group.

Thats very true to some extent but just how many raiders in a group can you take and miss out of all those 1% increases? If all toons had 4 talents of 1% and you had 10 people miss half of them is it worth having a raid miss out on that increased DPS? I can't see how it would be a good thing for the benefit of raiding. You need those talents.

16 DPS raiders x 10k = 160,000 raid DPS. If you had 10 people skip 2 1% talents each you wind up at... 158,000 raid DPS.

Which brings us to the point GC is trying to make: that is well within the range of uncertainty, noise. A single raider with a wonky connection will lose more than that. If two of your raiders didn't sleep well, if the warlocks started smoking weed earlier than usual tonight. The RNG causes more swings than this. You can get more DPS by buying a new video card.

Which is exactly GCs point. Kicking someone out of your raid because of one talent point here or there is overdoing it.

Where he is sort of wrong, or why he doesn't understand why this is happening is two fold: 1) that's usually the only criteria you have to judge a total stranger on. I doubt that if a friend of a PUG raid leader said "Get this dude, he knows what he's doing" said PUG leader would kick him for a gem choice. We overblow the importance of cookie cutter builds and gemming because that's the only information we usually have. and 2) often times you have to be a total bonehead to get them wrong. Not always, some times talents are a toss up. But sometimes they are very clearly pvp, pve, or useless, and it doesn't take a sim to reach that conclusion. So it's not that the talent is more or less than 1%. Its that you have to be an idiot to take whatever you took instead.

[Kenai]

16 DPS raiders x 10k = 160,000 raid DPS. If you had 10 people skip 2 1% talents each you wind up at... 158,000 raid DPS.

Which brings us to the point GC is trying to make: that is well within the range of uncertainty, noise. A single raider with a wonky connection will lose more than that. If two of your raiders didn't sleep well, if the warlocks started smoking weed earlier than usual tonight. The RNG causes more swings than this. You can get more DPS by buying a new video card.

Which is exactly GCs point. Kicking someone out of your raid because of one talent point here or there is overdoing it.

Where he is sort of wrong, or why he doesn't understand why this is happening is two fold: 1) that's usually the only criteria you have to judge a total stranger on. I doubt that if a friend of a PUG raid leader said "Get this dude, he knows what he's doing" said PUG leader would kick him for a gem choice. We overblow the importance of cookie cutter builds and gemming because that's the only information we usually have. and 2) often times you have to be a total bonehead to get them wrong. Not always, some times talents are a toss up. But sometimes they are very clearly pvp, pve, or useless, and it doesn't take a sim to reach that conclusion. So it's not that the talent is more or less than 1%. Its that you have to be an idiot to take whatever you took instead.

Agree. How else are you expected to judge someone by it? A pug, in general, stops being a pug when you already know everyone in it, so every pug is a risk. Add the future achievements for sticking with guild members, and the combat changes, to Dungeon Finder and it's not too surprising to not know someone in a pug, or the chance of getting a baddie going up. Kicking weaker links after already starting can make more people quit because they don't want to wait any longer. Add some other way to check or some incentive to taking that risk with a pug (perky pug continuation) and there might be more people willing to pug or stick around. That isn't even getting into the fact that some people might suck but get better with practice given the opportunity, but again, no incentive to carrying them til they get better if you're never going to see them again and they might cause a wipe.

[Alopex Major]

Spirit Beasts are going to be glorious for soloing, between the heal and the str/agi buff. Maybe not extreme soloing that requires tenacity, but levelling and old dungeons, certainly.

I absolutely ADORE that they finally made Spirit Beasts awesome!

Indeed, I can finally bring Loki (my dwarf's Loque'nahak)out of the stable again!

And alts all through Outland rejoiced at the new Return to Graveyard button

[Narshe]

Why don't they just make it a baseline skill then, and put some more interesting skills in there? >_>

Why dont they just make all talents baseline and get rid of talent trees?

Choice is a MMO is good, not bad.

[Terramourn]

Hmmm i wonder what will happen with those Hallow's end quests that need to be done in Southshore.

[Nexus2089]

They also added a kill yourself option under the "unstuck" options. Very handy

[Dicen]

Boubouille, long time reader first time poster, I really do appreciate all the pics from the beta but would you mind posting some of the alliance's victories, all I've been seeing recently from any media is horde takes this, horde takes that.

[towelliee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXJZ6fWkdb4 - me tanking first few pulls and first boss heroic dm

[Lemons]

Is there any Alliance presence in Hillsbrad at all? I'm counting...like...five Forsaken settlements/outposts and literally no Alliance towns. Eastpoint Tower...which sounds like it could be an alli outpost, is populated by a couple orcs and their forsaken therapist, Southshore is a plague-ridden ghost town, and Dun Garok is filled with ghosts. The only thing close to an Alliance presence in Hillsbrad I can see is the Strompike Guard and they're just there to serve as glorified whack-a-moles for leveling hordies.

So...yea...wtf. Please tell me we get Strahnbrad or something...

[valiorik]

Maybe they made hunters to suck realy hard, and as some compensation and posible raid spots the gave them all buffs Just like paladins in late BC

[Revrant]

Should be useful if you discover you died and can't reach your body somehow, I guess.