Enha 4.0.1 PTR - Build 13033

[Deleted]

Enhancement

* Dual Wield now also allows you to parry frontal melee attacks.
* Windfury Totem now increases the melee and ranged attack speed of all party and raid members within 40 yards by 10%. (Down from 20%)
* Feral Spirit now lasts 30 sec, down from 45 sec. Cooldown changed to 2 min, down from 3 min.

Thoughts?

Feral Spirit change is pretty good for PvP, me thinks.

[Dundebuns]

Double sided sword for PvP, as we wont be able to use spirit walk twice in one set of wolves, essentially meaning a definite 2 minute cooldown for that ability.

[Deleted]

Double sided sword for PvP, as we wont be able to use spirit walk twice in one set of wolves, essentially meaning a definite 2 minute cooldown for that ability.

Less spirit walk, more bash. Losing performance in PVE, dont know about PVP, but seems a fair trade to me.

[Dundebuns]

PvE wise it makes no difference other than you can get it up more times on a 10 minute fight (0,2,4,6,8,10 minutes in instead of 0,3,6,9). Duration wise, currently it's up 15 seconds for every minute of cooldown (3 minute CD, 45 sec duration) and after this change it will still be up 15 seconds for every minute of CD.

So it's a PvE buff and a PvP nerf.

[Pope]

I wouldn't call it a nerf yet.

Blizzard said they plan to bring the burst out of pvp, so in a long arena match - 2, 4 minutes - you can bring out the wolfes more often.

Maybe they decrease the cooldown on spirit walk to 25 seconds, so you can have it up again shortly before the wolfes disappear

[M4d2m0A]

The parry part, ok, I think it's just something they overlooked when they took dual-wielding out of the talent trees. They finally got around to adding it back in.

-10% haste makes me a sad panda, but I guess they are doing that with all of the +melee haste buffs.

I guess the Feral Spirit change isn't that bad. You'll need to pop heroism immediately after wolves and you'll still probably lose at the least 1-2 seconds of heroism on your wolves. Overall damage should be the same, -30% duration -30% cooldown seems like some pretty simple math. It doesn't say anything about it in the notes, but it is kind of a spirit walk nerf. The cooldown is 32 seconds and with 30 second wolves you'll obviously only be able to hit it once, and there were plenty of fights when I actually used it twice every time I popped wolves.

For pvp, the hell if I know. I pvp as elemental and pretty rarely at that.

[Deleted]

PvE wise it makes no difference other than you can get it up more times on a 10 minute fight (0,2,4,6,8,10 minutes in instead of 0,3,6,9). Duration wise, currently it's up 15 seconds for every minute of cooldown (3 minute CD, 45 sec duration) and after this change it will still be up 15 seconds for every minute of CD.

So it's a PvE buff and a PvP nerf.

So you dont use Spirit walk in PVE?

Its a PVE nerf.

[AedanWolfe]

I wouldn't call it a nerf yet.

Blizzard said they plan to bring the burst out of pvp, so in a long arena match - 2, 4 minutes - you can bring out the wolfes more often.

Maybe they decrease the cooldown on spirit walk to 25 seconds, so you can have it up again shortly before the wolfes disappear

theyve said a lot of things. while i believe that fights will be less burst. burst will still be king for deciding a win vs a loss. its just how it is, maybe if the game didnt involve damage it wouldnt.

the only difference is you wont have cleave teams where people get blown up in a few seconds.

as for the change, once again they make a halfstep towards what they intend. a 1 mind CD with a 20 second duration wouldve been better.

and even then just changing the CD wont change our reliance on the ability unless the CD is too great to use in arena. you need to change the ability itself.

and it is in fact a uptime buff in PVE

---------- Post added 2010-09-24 at 07:33 AM ----------

So you dont use Spirit walk in PVE?

Its a PVE nerf.

you fail at math.

or are you confused and talking about spirit walk? we talking about feral spirit

[Dundebuns]

So you dont use Spirit walk in PVE?

Its a PVE nerf.

Personally no since I'm Resto pretty much all the time :P I was talking about the uptime of Wolves and how they would contribute to your DPS.

[Omanley]

the total uptime at best is still 25%. no buff/nerf here.
-assuming they really dont tweak numbers in duration/cooldown of spirit walk, it´s a pvp nerf
-assuming feral spirits scale with haste in cata, i´d be a nerf for trolls (3min cd haste), but a buff for orcs since wolves would always have bloodfury

atm i dont think it´s that great. the totem nerf is understandable since they nerfed the buff in total, but it additionally fucks up our value for haste in pve, which on the other hand, could lead to more balancing without it, which would us maybe give at least one small edge against other classes, which´d maybe gem haste in pvp for faster energy/focus/rage regen or something.

the parry added is ofc from spirit weapons talent.

edit: i said it´s a pvp nerf if they do not tweak spirit walk numbers, but i just noticed that in bg's, wolves often do not run their full duration due to you dieing to fast. i often cursed to die often because of the long cooldown. i think it will come down at a improvement in bg´s at least, while it may be a nerf in arena.

[Arinnaya]

Well the DPS will drop a slight bit since most people tend to get their wolves herolusted where possible. With a 45 second duration (and the GCD) you could get the full duration of herolust out of it, whereas this time the wolves will disappear before herolust ends. That said, you can get more use out of them for certain fight durations, and in PVP I call it a buff, since spirit walk is nice, but I think bash is nicer.

[Endus]

you fail at math.

or are you confused and talking about spirit walk? we talking about feral spirit

Spirit Walk is PART of Feral Spirits. Do you not even know the ability we're talking about?

You may be confused and be thinking of Spiritwalker's Grace, which is an entirely separate ability, but that's YOUR confusion and fail.

[Gargz]

I see they didn't fix our totems to a static 100 yard range again......this makes me cry in RL. Curious, b/c nearly every class now has a buff similar or exactly like what our totems provide and yet, we're still stuck with 40yrd range.

*Edit*

Totemic reach is god awful. 12 extra yards....yay..../sarcasim off. What a wasted f'ing talent.

[Barky]

I think it's a bit of a double edged sword. In one respect with one summon of the wolves followed up by hero/BL, you could get the full duration of damage out of them, however now it's going to end with some heroism time left over.

On the other hand, more summons of them means you can use them more often, both in boss fights as well as a few trash pulls here and there before a boss fight.

Plus in PvP that means bash is available more often, however that means the sprint and snare removal from wolves takes a knock.

I'm going to be interested to see how it turns out on the dummies, ill probably have a test and see how their dps goes.

And the parry is about time. As well as Stoneclaw damage absorbtion being upped.

[AedanWolfe]

Spirit Walk is PART of Feral Spirits. Do you not even know the ability we're talking about?

You may be confused and be thinking of Spiritwalker's Grace, which is an entirely separate ability, but that's YOUR confusion and fail.

yes it is, and i apologize, i thought it was spirit walkers grace he was referring to.

[Omanley]

And the parry is about time. As well as Stoneclaw damage absorbtion being upped.

did they actually up the absorption effect? all i read was that it´s health was incresed.

[Arinnaya]

Yes, absorption up to a bit over 4000 (don't remember exact figure) meaning that the Glyph will absorb over 16,000 damage, which makes it a bit better than it is now (although obviously health pools scale a load as well)

[Omanley]

Yes, absorption up to a bit over 4000 (don't remember exact figure) meaning that the Glyph will absorb over 16,000 damage, which makes it a bit better than it is now (although obviously health pools scale a load as well)

now im confused. didn´t they half the absorption effect to 2k? or did they just fail to mention that it was in accordance to a buff it received before?
on life, stoneclaw wards each totem for 1k, and the caster for the sum (4k)
if what you say is true, stoneclaw will shield each totem for 4k, and shield for 16k.
even taking into account higher burst of several classes come 4.0, 16k is quite something.
well, there´s also up to ask, wether or not that is the lvl85, or the 80 one.

[Arinnaya]

Stoneclaw Totem now has 6186 health, up from 797. Shields your totems for up to 4143 damage, up from 664.

On the front page about the new beta build. I'm assuming that's the level 85 numbers. I haven't heard anything about changes to absorption apart from this one so couldn't help you, although the numbers it's been changed from aren't the numbers on live as you say.

[Omanley]

hmm yeah. 1k dmg absorbed per totem, halved=> ~664 yeah. so i do not know why they nerfed it to begin with, but as it looks it wont be total garbage. i guess i'll look at the beta stoneclaw totem glyph wether it still wards the sum of the individual totem absorbs.
edit: it appears there are no changes made in terms of stoneclaw totem glyph, as it doesn´t appear maong the new glyphes list. still there is left to know wether or not that´s the ammount absorbed on lvl 80, or 85.