How can a peace-loving druidic race like the tauren tolerate what the horde is doing?

[Kealsin]

I stopped reading the posts after the 8th one. One guy said the Tauren owe the Horde big time. This is true. If not for Thrall and the Orcs they would be gone. Also, someone said Druids remain neutral within the Alliance/Horde conflict. Also true. They are warriors, hunters, etc, etc at first. With this, Druids aren't really for 'Nature'. They are for animals. SHAMANS are nature. That is why Thrall himself gave up his title as Warchief to save the planet. Shamans would be the one trying to stop the destruction of nature. Not the Druids.

[haydude]

Sometimes lore has to take a backseat for gameplay. Maybe normally a Tauren Druid wouldn't corrupt the heart of a forest, but they can't just say "Druids are unable to accept this quest, sorry"

[taylor20k]

sometimes sacrifices must be made for the greater good, which is, in their case, winning the war against the alliance. collateral damage is necessary.

[Araxie]

Ok, so maybe not all of the taurens. But why aren't horde druids, trolls included, even trying to do anything? They might as well not be considered druids if they refuse to protect nature.

Everyone needs Resources to survive, they do what they must. As for the bomb... Even Garrosh disagreed with it. It was a mistake, but theres nothing they can do now.

[Sojourner]

The Horde is not corrupting the land. Nature is about cycle, including not only life, but death as well. Horde needs wood for their future, and Horde druids know that, and they know that cutting trees is not despoiling the nature, the wood will be taken, the land left to regrow. Orcs and others make buildings to live in, tools to use and burn some to have warmth during cold times. You won't see druids killing beavers because they destroy trees to make dams to live in, or start killing off predators because they kill and feed on the meat of their prey.

Druids does not equal treehugger/PETAnerd/whatever, they are preservers of Nature, and nature is more than just defending trees.


The Bomb topic was explained many times - only one idiot with power led to it, both the tauren chieftain and Garrosh disapproved of it.

[Cruckesmus]

nature is nature, the steppe a deforested ashenvale may become is as much nature as are the forests now.

While this may be no argument for senseless destruction, but a tauren druid grown up in the barrens and open plains of mulgore might see the situation less problematic than a tree-hugging nightelf.

nuff said bro

[Zot]

The tauren aren't white knights. They have their baddies too, and in Cataclysm, one of them takes the tauren throne. Let's not try and project racial ideals on WoW

[Togarox]

A horde druid leveling in cata will commit those crimes

My point still stands. You can't punish a group of people for a crime they didn't commit. The tauren druids as a whole did not commit those crimes therefore cannot be blamed for the actions of a couple corrupted individuals.

[Deleted]

Ok, so maybe not all of the taurens. But why aren't horde druids, trolls included, even trying to do anything? They might as well not be considered druids if they refuse to protect nature.

Maybe they realize that it will happen anyway, no matter how much effort they put in protecting it so they decide to use their influence somewhere it has more chance.

[Darkhallows]

The trolls are probably the ones within the Horde that are the most at odds with how it is now. I'm fairly certain the trolls, especially troll druids, are upset with the whole nature-being-destroyed thing, (and there are a few trying to fix things, like the troll druid in WPL), and the Tauren aren't happy with the destruction, (think about Cliffwalker), but there is a time and place for everything. If the Tauren or Trolls openly rebelled against this deal, which they wouldn't do because they aren't stupid, they'd be destroyed. Goblins, the young orcs, and the other races don't care enough and probably enjoy the Horde's new direction ALOT.

[mordale]

Maybe they realize that it will happen anyway, no matter how much effort they put in protecting it so they decide to use their influence somewhere it has more chance.

same argument can be used as a doctor "why should i try and save this guy's life if hes just going to die anyway?".

overall when it comes to things like that our characters are largely karmic houdinis,we do bad shit but get away with it without any form of punishment.
even happens to alot of characters in the game look at gallywix,the captain from S. barrens,and magatha.

[LurkerOnly]

same argument can be used as a doctor "why should i try and save this guy's life if hes just going to die anyway?".

overall when it comes to things like that our characters are largely karmic houdinis,we do bad shit but get away with it without any form of punishment.
even happens to alot of characters in the game look at gallywix,the captain from S. barrens,and magatha.

Mass Effect 2 style "moral consequences" are incredibly unrealistic.

Face it.

People (every single one of them, you included) do something that somebody else REALLY wishes you hadn't done, dozens of times a day.

Yet, the overall thread of your daily life isn't affected one bit.

People are nice or rude to you for their own reasons, and it often has absolutely nothing to do with anything you did. "My father beat me, and you look like him, so I'm afraid of you on an instinctive level. Not enough to cringe away, but enough to not trust you, even though you've never spoken to me." "My boss just yelled at me, so I'm going to be an asshole to you, even though you thanked me for my service."

You see?

In any case, to restate the obvious, "nature" only means "fluffy bunnies and pretty flowers must not be destroyed!" to people that don't understand the ecosystem. Correct me if I'm wrong, but D.E.H.T.A isn't even part of the Cenarion Circle anymore, for exactly that reason.

Plants die of disease, forests burn, wolves eat fluffy bunnies. It's all part of the cycle. A druid understands that killing all the wolves means millions of bunnies not being eaten by wolves, and those bunnies are eating grass, and that means bye-bye grass. Which means bye-bye trees, since there's no grass to hold the soil in place from rain, and no grass to keep the moisture in the ground from evaporating so rapidly. Druids understand that wolves eating bunnies allows the forest to exist at all. Druids understand that forest fires replenish agriculturally precious nitrates back into the soil of the forest floor, and counterbalance the alkaline compounds left behind by tree metabolism, as well as making room for new growth. Druids understand that many trees in large-scale forests actually rely on fire to propogate seeds. Pine cones, for example, explode in heat and then the seeds are attached to long unifoils that spin the seeds up into the air on the thermal updrafts from the fire. This spreads the seeds to areas they never would have reached. This is the primary way forests grow.

So yeah. Why would they mind? It's all just another version of a perfectly natural act. No difference to a druid between a lightning bolt starting the fire, or a bomb.

/thread

[mordale]

@LurkerOnly
i was unaware that these people existed in the REAL WORLD, in which yes bad shit is done to good people by bad people and there is most often no justice(some times they are even praised).

and yes you are wrong they're a returning branch from the CE who are hellbent on killing someone who breaks the natural balance where ever he goes.
yes i know they understand that but when something drastically alters the existing balance they are charged to remove,cleanse,contain, and in some times destroy it, much in the same way of invasive species being introduced into a Ecosystem and completely wreck it(see the toads in Australia).
and yes they would mind since its not a natural act what the horde did to the forest heart, how so you might ask? its introducing something into the environment that should not be there.
and no a bomb is not a natural thing, a volcano and a lighting storm are but a bomb is not.

[Togarox]

and yes they would mind since its not a natural act what the horde did to the forest heart, how so you might ask? its introducing something into the environment that should not be there.
and no a bomb is not a natural thing, a volcano and a lighting storm are but a bomb is not.

The forest heart is not a bomb and the horde did not introduce a bomb to the forest heart. You are merging 2 different situations. No one was happy with the bomb. Not even garrosh.

[Quackie]

"Edited"

Wrong. Thanks for playing.

Arthas was still a part of the Alliance when he started going nuts, and they failed to act. He was their guy and they stood by while he did things like the Culling of Strat.

How are you going to stand by and watch one of your allies commit atrocities while thinking you're in the right simply because you refused to follow them?

Sounds like something some peace loving hippie would do. Offer all the criticism in the world but take ZERO action to actually cause a change.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."

10 points if you can tell me who said that. (without google)

---------- Post added 2010-10-08 at 11:58 PM ----------

The Horde is not corrupting the land. Nature is about cycle, including not only life, but death as well. Horde needs wood for their future, and Horde druids know that, and they know that cutting trees is not despoiling the nature, the wood will be taken, the land left to regrow. Orcs and others make buildings to live in, tools to use and burn some to have warmth during cold times. You won't see druids killing beavers because they destroy trees to make dams to live in, or start killing off predators because they kill and feed on the meat of their prey.

Druids does not equal treehugger/PETAnerd/whatever, they are preservers of Nature, and nature is more than just defending trees.


The Bomb topic was explained many times - only one idiot with power led to it, both the tauren chieftain and Garrosh disapproved of it.

Great post.

[Deleted]

Wrong. Thanks for playing.

Arthas was still a part of the Alliance when he started going nuts, and they failed to act. He was their guy and they stood by while he did things like the Culling of Strat.

How are you going to stand by and watch one of your allies commit atrocities while thinking you're in the right simply because you refused to follow them?

Sounds like something some peace loving hippie would do. Offer all the criticism in the world but take ZERO action to actually cause a change.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."

10 points if you can tell me who said that.

What Alliance? The Alliance of Lordaeron was nothing more than a pale shadow of its former self, with many members already having withdrawn and the others being too far away to be able to do anything in a timely manner. When they heard what Arthas was doing it was probably too late.

The current Alliance (not the same, but simply a sucessor of the first) wasn't even formed.

In any event, blaming an entire organization, composed of multiple nations and a multitude of individuals for the action of one person does not make much sense.

The Burning Legion, more specifically Kil'jaeden, is to be blamed for the Plague and the Lich King.
Arthas is to be blamed for his own actions.

[Shynra]

I stopped reading the posts after the 8th one. One guy said the Tauren owe the Horde big time. This is true. If not for Thrall and the Orcs they would be gone. Also, someone said Druids remain neutral within the Alliance/Horde conflict. Also true. They are warriors, hunters, etc, etc at first. With this, Druids aren't really for 'Nature'. They are for animals. SHAMANS are nature. That is why Thrall himself gave up his title as Warchief to save the planet. Shamans would be the one trying to stop the destruction of nature. Not the Druids.

Right, I guess it's Night Elf shamans trying to heal Felwood from its corruption. Indeed, it appears animals are not part of nature at all!

[Hotaro]

Druids come and go as they please, and their goals typically have little to do with the "civilized" world. Unaffiliated with any specific government, the primary druidic organization on Azeroth, the Cenarion Circle, answers to no one save itself. The highest rank that a druid can have is that of archdruid, and there are only a few archdruids on Azeroth. At the moment the Cenarion Circle's leader is Archdruid Malfurion Stormrage, also the first mortal druid on Azeroth.
The night elf druids were recently joined in the Cenarion Circle by the tauren druids. It is not clear from the current game content if the tauren learned druidism separately from the night elves or if they were taught by the night elves. Conflicting information in the Warcraft universe further exacerbates the confusion. Either way, the tauren and the night elf druids do not participate in the Alliance/Horde conflict, but coexist peacefully within the Cenarion Circle.
Taken from wowwiki.
Player druids are NOT part of the Cenarion Circle and are seprate Horde/Alliance Alligned carrying out orders by The Horde/Alliance.

[Warzi]

Keep in mind (if you read the Warcraft books out there) that the alliance has far greater internal problems in regards to both loyalty and corruption than the horde do.

Historically yes. But then historically the US was a colony of Great Britain, and history means nothing. In Cataclysm the Alliance is more together than the Horde, thats the point. I'm not saying the Alliance has no problems, or doesn't have alot of them, what i'm saying (and what you seem to have deliberately not quoted) is that one side is making an attempt to deal with its issues, whilst the other isn't.

Plus, we have the alliance to thank for the lich king.

[/QUOTE]

What does that have to do with the topic at hand? That is nothing more than petty faction points scoring based off of a sketchy understanding of the lore. Arthas was part of the Alliance at one point in his existance, and Ner'zhul was part of the Horde at one point in his. You have the Burning Legion to thank for the Lich King.

[shotrey]

Keep in mind (if you read the Warcraft books out there) that the alliance has far greater internal problems in regards to both loyalty and corruption than the horde do.
.

Or you know read Quest text.