Cataclysm heroic damage = Ridiculous.

[pieki]

Sigh. Trolls need to get banned.

This post is a whine yeah, it is.
95% of the people you meet in LFD are un-geared for end-game.
The LFD will be an absolutely NIGHTMARE at the start of Cataclysm. =/
That's what I'm trying to get at.
I should've stated it.

soo if i walk in to icc whith greens thay shod nerf it to match my item level?
think one of the think ppl are missing the most are actly gearing up there toons

[Kaaya]

I am also in the beta, it is true that a healer can go OOM in 12 seconds if they just spam there biggest heal however there is usually alot of alternatives to just faceroll the 12k heal button e.g a pally could pop a holy light healing for 5k and follow it up with a holy word and a holy shock for 20k heals in nearly the same amount of time. Alot of the difficulty at the moment in cataclysm beta is the shock from the huge changes to classes people just need to get used to the changes.

I have completed all heroics but heroic Stone Core and in my opinion some of them like Dead Mines are a little bit easy you can storm through DM without any CC with a 333 geared group. Some fights in heroics take alot of coordination like the first boss in HoO you need your party to jump down and channel two levers each lever taking 10 secs to pop while all this is happening there is a damage aura and cobras attacking you and ontop of that if anything hits you while channeling you get interrupted, fights like these pugs will most likely not be able to do without some decent gear.

Class balance is also an issue while running i found that most times if we didnt have either a shaman or a druid healing we wouldnt be able to finish the heroic some dps is also very undertuned like ret paladins.

As far as im concerned OP is not using his CC, his healers are undertuned classes and he isnt understanding boss mechanics. Go go cata dont change the heroics blizz!

[Modify]

Hey gang.

I've got a few premades on beta atm, and I just did a few random heroics on my recently copied Retadin.

I noticed 2 major things.

1) The damage is absolutely ridiculous. Mobs were hitting for almsot 60% of my hp (89k). The tank would almost get 2 hit in any scenario. Don't get me started on bosses.

2) Healers going oom in literally 12 seconds. They have to use the fast very expensive heal to keep the tanks alive due to the overwhelming damage.

That's pretty much it. I've attempted at least 50+ heroics and not once have I downed a boss due to tanks dying in a healcast or healers going oom faster than i can get a full rotation off.

Not happy at all.

As i've seen heroic dungeon's getting cleared in beta you just suck

[Vasz]

Deadmines Heroic took us 3 hours

I have no real problems with this, if the loot that drops is worth it. You could argue that most of the loot in WotLK HC was a very minor upgrade from your 187 gear from quests.

Another problem I have is the HC lock'in we get. If for example it does take 3 hours, but an average pug leaves after 45 mins; does that mean I will never be able to PUG a HC?

You have to remember that Epics no longer drop in dungeons ... so why spend 3 hours in a "fail group" for no or little reward?

Time will tell

[Dexiefy]

Hey gang.

I've got a few premades on beta atm, and I just did a few random heroics on my recently copied Retadin.

I noticed 2 major things.

1) The damage is absolutely ridiculous. Mobs were hitting for almsot 60% of my hp (89k). The tank would almost get 2 hit in any scenario. Don't get me started on bosses.

2) Healers going oom in literally 12 seconds. They have to use the fast very expensive heal to keep the tanks alive due to the overwhelming damage.

That's pretty much it. I've attempted at least 50+ heroics and not once have I downed a boss due to tanks dying in a healcast or healers going oom faster than i can get a full rotation off.

Not happy at all.

89k? my premade mage has 80k.... this brings me to idea that you really dont ahve any lvl 85 loot...
Which basicly means you are not fit to tank heroics whatsoever.
Thats right cata will require you to o regular dungeons before you enter heroics.


ahh wotlk heroes tears <3

[russykh]

89k? my premade mage has 80k.... this brings me to idea that you really dont ahve any lvl 85 loot...
Which basicly means you are not fit to tank heroics whatsoever.
Thats right cata will require you to o regular dungeons before you enter heroics.


ahh wotlk heroes tears <3

He wasnt trying to tank. If you read his post, he was a ret pally. The fact he even referred to the tank seperately should have hinted at that even further.

ahh people with rubbish reading comprehension trying to sound clever tears <3

[Seezer]

Dont worry the current heroics will be NERFED hard . I dont care what blizzard says the QQ will to be to epic when casuals ( 90% if the player base ) cannot even finish a heroic ...trust me they will all be nerfed .

Not likely. Where do you people come up with these numbers? 90%? 90% of the player base isn't terrible. There will be QQ threads galore. But those ppl don't speak for the population. They are just the most vocal. Blizz will touch up heroics a little, but they are heroics. Not faceroll. Trust me when I say they won't be nerfed hard.

[Dairystyle]

Stop using the "if its hard ppl will quit" argument. Come up with some valid research proving that fact, don't just throw some random BS around.

You know I could but common sense and the amount of QQing from people on this board should make it obvious already that making it too hard means people just quit. You people bitch, moan, whine and cry how easy it is and how it coddles the casuals, then when people complain about it, this thread, you IGNORE that very fact. That if it's too hard for people to do, they won't do it. That's the majority of players, the casuals, the scrubs, the people you call retards and morons, you mindlessly parrot L2P at.

Get it?

Vanilla dungeons were hard, ppl dindn't quit.
BC dungeons and HC were hard, ppl still didn't quit.
Instead guess what? The WoW population continued to grow.

WOTLK dungeons, easiest yet and the numbers exploded. They did even off but after this long of a period of little content and it's no surprise. People played WOTLK more than they did Vanilla or TBC. And there are numbers to back that up, which I'm sure you'll twist to your liking to prove some point. Even when Blizzard releases numbers showing this you're too busy making up excuses why they're wrong.

I belive the reward should match the difficulty which now after steamroll wotlk it seems to do once again.
They stopped handing out epics left and right. Get over it.

Ppl will only have to work a little harder. The feeling off completing the harder task will make that aquired epic more valuable and perhaps instill the long lost feeling of actually being proud of your epics.

I think people should be working harder but not as hard as some people here think. Those who think that TBC was the best have their opinion but it will never be that hard again. Blizzard is not going to make the same mistake overtuning dungeons they did in the past although I'm sure at release we'll see a lot of nerfing and buffing of different aspects to make it more accessible to more people.

And that's it from me. I'm not going to argue with a bunch of closed-minded, ignorant assumptions and players who spout off how everyone but those who think like them is wrong. There won't be some great hardcore renaissance again so get over it. QQ and cry like children all you want to beg Blizzard to do the same mistakes they did in Vanilla or TBC but don't expect them to make it so hard their average player (not you lot who aren't as important as you make yourselves to be) cannot do the dungeons in less than 2 hours and without a dozen wipes.

[Bumdee]

Good. A hard mode should be hard.

^ This

Reminds me of the good old days of TBC Heroics where they really were just that hard. I remember heroic steamvault wiping on trash 3 or 4 times till we finally got things situated / killed the mob that kept 1 shotting the healer

[allrightythen]

How am I lazy?

I'm stating that damage is very high in heroics, based on my experiences in the game.

Please troll elsewhere.

if your not the tank, your not supposed to get hit by the hard hitting mobs.

nothing wrong here.

---------- Post added 2010-10-11 at 06:51 PM ----------

Blizzard stated the premade characters are enough to get heroics done.

Clearly not, if a lot of people are saying the gear is not on par with what it should be.

Crafted, BoE's, reputation rewards, are you saying this needs to be done to get the appropriate gear to not struggle in heroics?

oh my you mean you have to play the game?

also, if all you do is a kill order and/or aoe then im not suprised you failed at the first pull. lrn2play

[AlexGrey]

Actually I think 90% of people here couldn't care less if heroics are faceroll easy or not if they are honest. It's more the fear of Cata = Wrath 2.0. I'll do heroics a few days nonstop till I'm ready to raid. After that, MAYBE for daily valor points. If they feel like nexus all over again it wouldn't bother me the least. I'm not interested in them at all.
What people are doing here is make an assumption: If heroics are hard, then raids will be challenging. My guess is, that's what most people really wanna see. Challenging raids. They just interpret hard heroics as a good indication of what awaits us in raids.
I'd have no problems if they tune down heroics so they are completely puggable from the get go. Problem is, those people who now claim heroics should be easy will then cry a river once raids are not puggable from week 1.
"Damage in Raids is WTFRIDICOLOUS". Probably will happen nonetheless. My hope is bad players will need a lot of time till raids are even an option for them. Mildly challenging heroics are a good way to guarantee that. And btw, they all got nerfed to the ground, I still don't get where all this hype is coming from.

I think your assertions skew a bit from the point people are trying to get across. Granted, everyone wants raids to be challenging and worth the effort. But Heroics are a stepping stone to tier raiding, and for that reason they should be challenging as well.

You are looking at this from a very obscure and narrow angle. This isn't just about the hardcore old-school raiders who want to have hard content and reasonable access to it from a short series of tasks. This is about new and learning players who need their skills and knowledge of the game environment to be tested. If Heroics are too easy, we will see an influx of unfit raiders flooding the game with absolutely no clue what they are doing.

It's called progression. Get this into your head.

[Fallen Angel]

Oh noes!!! People need to use cool downs for the first time in a long time. NERFS!!!

[rboa]

Well, I have done some Heroics as well (As a Shaman Healer), and I must say that this is exciting.
Deadmines Heroic took us 3 hours, but we did manage to kill every boss (Including Vanessa, who's an optional boss availible after you clear a Gauntlet).
Hard?
Yes.
Impossible?
Hell no.

The mana problems are solved by choosing the right specc to regain mana.
Almost every healer now has some sort of attack that returns mana to the caster. In my case, this is Lightning Bolt.
Of course, with 7k damage per hit, it might not be a lot. But regaining 40-50% mana that way is worth it. Whenever possible, try to get a hit on the boss.
Also, if the Healer goes OOM withing 12 seconds, than something is going horribly wrong in your group.
If I cast my biggest heal non-stop, I would at least last for 30-50 seconds.
I usually just Heal -> Damage -> Heal -> Damage -> Heal -> Damage (crap, boss uses a special ability) -> Riptide -> 2X Heal -> Damage

However, saying that Heroics is impossibly because you ran them 50 times (which I think you honestly didn't) doesn't mean they are actually impossible. Maybe you were downright unlucky?

Two things you overlooked:
1) A 3 hour heroic is horrible. You play for 3 hours for ICC, not a heroic.
2) All you did was attempt it until the rng fell in your favor. You did not beat the boss. You simply repeated until you got miss-miss-miss-miss on the boss hits.

[AlexGrey]

^ This

Reminds me of the good old days of TBC Heroics where they really were just that hard. I remember heroic steamvault wiping on trash 3 or 4 times till we finally got things situated / killed the mob that kept 1 shotting the healer

lol good times. BC heroics made so many people /ragequit, it was awesome. I really like what Blizzard has done for the game though, implementing hard modes so both casual and hardcore players get to see the same content. Blizzard is always thinking of new ways to revolutionize their market.

[Magicochon]

I've done many heroic, and I have to agree that some of them (SFK and Deamine for exemple..) are a lil bit 2 hardcore.
I'd say that mobs should in some heroic should hit 10-15% less.
Other than that I love the new heroics.

[Zetsumei]

Easy of the Lick King is over guys. But don't worry, it won't be that hard...

[AlexGrey]

Two things you overlooked:
1) A 3 hour heroic is horrible. You play for 3 hours for ICC, not a heroic.
2) All you did was attempt it until the rng fell in your favor. You did not beat the boss. You simply repeated until you got miss-miss-miss-miss on the boss hits.

I don't think heroics are intended to be as hard as they are on beta now, they were only just recently released. But despite Heroics being designed to take only 20-40 minutes, it CAN take some groups an hour or so for completion if they are un-skilled or unaware of encounter mechanics. That is how it was/is meant to be, people learning from their mistakes and improving to a level appropriate of tier-raiding material.

Although, I can definitely see your point of ICC time > Heroic time

[sweepdeepsPL]

What? Are cata heroics too hard for you? Thats what they were like back in BC, and Blizzard wants it to be like what it was back in BC. All those Wrathies QQ and complain to Blizzard and Blizzard does not give a crap. More people started wow with BC+Vanilla than Wrath.

[Deleted]

WOTLK dungeons, easiest yet and the numbers exploded.

there were 11 million subscribers playing the game during the last few months of TBC and 12 million at the end of WotLK. so that is an increase of 1m (around 8%). Hardly an 'explosion' in numbers.

[allrightythen]

Two things you overlooked:
1) A 3 hour heroic is horrible. You play for 3 hours for ICC, not a heroic.
2) All you did was attempt it until the rng fell in your favor. You did not beat the boss. You simply repeated until you got miss-miss-miss-miss on the boss hits.

you overlooked as well.

it took 3 hours cuz they were in a dungeon they never experienced before, with mobs doing things they were unfamiliar with, mechanics they didnt know, etc.

in other words, they died. so its understandable. it wont take more then a hour tops if there is no wiping.

secondly the person you quoted never mentioned anything about getting RNG in there favor, your assuming.

---------- Post added 2010-10-11 at 07:16 PM ----------

I've done many heroic, and I have to agree that some of them (SFK and Deamine for exemple..) are a lil bit 2 hardcore.
I'd say that mobs should in some heroic should hit 10-15% less.
Other than that I love the new heroics.

your post makes no logical sense.

SFK had a BLUE post saying it was overtuned.

deadmines is easier then stonecore, in fact its not really that hard. you just cant ram your face against it like you can in wotlk.