Heroics now too easy?

[obao98]

Somehow TBC heroics were quite hard, you could re-run them even in T6 they could scare you off.
Suprising they cannot find the middle ground between WOTLK bore and TBC challenges.

I keep hearing this, and I just don't get why people keep saying it.

BC heroics were NOT hard. I used to run those instances just as fast as WotLK heroics. Probably faster, since there were so many shortcuts.

[Gron]

I mean before 3.0 patch hit. The normal heroic. Shattered Halls heroic (try to run it with warrior who had no AOE taunt but had to hold 7 mobs), Black Moras, Botanica, Alcatraz, Escape from Durnholde...

More than 50% of the heroics were damn hard. Nothing like the soft WOTLK ones, where a boss lasts 15 seconds.

[seam]

I mean before 3.0 patch hit. The normal heroic. Shattered Halls heroic (try to run it with warrior who had no AOE taunt but had to hold 7 mobs), Black Moras, Botanica, Alcatraz, Escape from Durnholde...

More than 50% of the heroics were damn hard. Nothing like the soft WOTLK ones, where a boss lasts 15 seconds.

Well, for one, you are flat out wrong. Once you get T4 or higher, and had a decent group, everything outside of Slabs was "Lawl chain pull"(Granted 'chain pulling' in BC was different, instead of pulling 2-3 groups you would wait till the last mob in your group was nearly dead, and then pull the next one). Then when MgT came out T5 groups had slight issues with it...until people figured out how easy it really was =\

Oh, and your right. Instead of Heroic bosses lasting 15 seconds, Kara bosses did. I believe my fastest kill pre-3.0 was 32 second on Maiden. Frequently killed Curator before he got one evo off.

Post-3.0 everything was a joke, so I'm not even going to talk about that.(Lawl 10 second maiden kill, 20ish second Prince kill)


If you think BC heroics were hard in T6 gear, you were bad, and most likely were carried through BT. No offense.
That or you didn't play BC...

[Daljo]

Fights are lasting 20 seconds because of gear, right? Well, with the decrease in total ILVL at high end in Cataclysm you should see less of a ILVL jump, meaning longer fights.

The developers could easily add another level of difficulty to current options of heroic and normal but that would completely defeat the purpose of the LFG system. Once the next level of raiding is released, heroics are for helping the undergeared players catch up to the rest of the raiding populace in order to give them a chance at raiding without needing to be boosted in the previous raid tiers.

If people really wanted difficult heroics then there are a couple of options:
- Limiting the DPS/HPS/Health of players above a certain item score.
- Adding the next level of difficulty in the same fashion as heroic for more accomplished players at 1 lockout per instance per week, akin to small raids, whilst still offering an incentive for high end raiders to do Heroics/Normals.

Either of these options would allow the differently geared players to intergrate with one another as they do today but still provide a challenge for those wanting it.

[TheBearkin]

I mean before 3.0 patch hit. The normal heroic. Shattered Halls heroic (try to run it with warrior who had no AOE taunt but had to hold 7 mobs), Black Moras, Botanica, Alcatraz, Escape from Durnholde...

More than 50% of the heroics were damn hard. Nothing like the soft WOTLK ones, where a boss lasts 15 seconds.

If you were in full t6 (or hell even T5 for that matter) which was not hard to do if you raided even remotely actively seeing that BT/Hyjal were released almost instantly, heroics were still easy - mind you not nearly as trivial as they are today but easy nonetheless. Mind you, my experience is tanking only which I did on both warrior and druid (I have yet to roll a paladin). Let's look at your list:

Shattered Halls: The main "challenge" were still the sharpshooters but dps burned them down faster than they could do anything. I always liked tanking this one since we could do it in 25-30 mins and get a guaranteed 5 badges.

Black Morass: Easy, probably second only to Botanica. Only one of the dps needs to be awake for adds duty.

Botanica: This was a standard-paced heroic; there's nothing really difficult in here. Once gear became plentiful, I never bothered cc'ing in there anymore; just have dps focus on key mobs before they get out of hand. I remember healers having me pull empowered satyrs just so they wouldn't fall asleep. Also, not standing in DnD doesn't make shit challenging, it just means you're running with special people.

Alcatraz: This one is also easy and just requires you to pull a tad smart i.e. don't pull 4 voidwalkers or 3 eyes. This happened a lot in pugs and lead to disbands. The "horror" in the minds of many comes from the last room but it was more tedious than difficult.

Escape from Durnholde: Again, easy with any modicrum of gear.

The only heroic that was a always a welcome experience was Magisters Terrace. I got unlucky on my druid and had to farm it for up to 40 times for the damn trinket but I never burned out on it; it's still in my mind what heroics should be. Well paced, varied challenges that can be met with creative solutions and good rewards for them.

Mind you, you still had to stay smart with TBC heroics. WotLK heroics barely requires you to be awake which is what I hope they fix. I have no doubt that we will overgear the Cataclysm heroics - my only hope here is that they will remain interesting and force smart play.

[seam]

Mind you, you still had to stay smart with TBC heroics. WotLK heroics barely requires you to be awake which is what I hope they fix. I have no doubt that we will overgear the Cataclysm heroics - my only hope here is that they will remain interesting and force smart play.

Indeed. BC Heroics were 'harder' than Wrath heroics, I don't think anyone is argueing that.

The thing is, people with nostalgia are freaking out going "Amg, I used to wipe all the time in BC heroics in full T6! It was that hard!" and then compare it to now.

BC Heroics were still hard in T5-T6 in the sense that you had to stay awake. That's about it, though. As gear got better(I'd say around T4 for everything outside of MgT, SLabs, and SH) you didn't need to CC anymore, it was just supplementary. Then once you had T6 you could steamroll every heroic, but you still needed to be awake to do it.

I would LOVE it to be that way again. I just think it's hilarious when people try and say BC heroics were really hard XD

Edit: This was in agreement with the above post, not disagreeing.