The Cat Guide - 4.3

[Deleted]

personally i feel like its useless under 60%, but do whatever you feel like.

i dont think so, allows you to refresh rip with a bite, boost it upto 20+ secs then look at refreshing rake + SR without having to 1-2 CP bite to keep Rip rolling, and allows you to plan around your next Hour of Twilight.

[tangedyn]

@Jalient

I recommend taking 2 points out of Natural Reaction (which shouldn't be taken for a cat build) and putting it into Furor which will help you a little when you switch forms for the buff and to put up MR at the end.

Dying at 5:28 sounds like the healers are not coping. With Bloodlust and your Mass Regeneration up at 5:00 they should be able to keep people up until 5:40 when MR and Bloodlust drops.

For this fight you WILL get more DPS out of Glyph of Mangle than Glyph of Bloodletting. Sure, GoBL may be better for QoL but a DPS loss is still a DPS loss, if you want more DPS you have to work for it. 10% more dps from the glyph is an exaggeration of course, it's around 1% more DPS.

[Deleted]

For this fight you WILL get more DPS out of Glyph of Mangle than Glyph of Bloodletting.

In your opinion maybe. Ill roll with GoM tonight and see where it gets me.

[Jalient]

Jalient

I recommend taking 2 points out of Natural Reaction (which shouldn't be taken for a cat build) and putting it into Furor which will help you a little when you switch forms for the buff and to put up MR at the end.

Dying at 5:28 sounds like the healers are not coping. With Bloodlust and your Mass Regeneration up at 5:00 they should be able to keep people up until 5:40 when MR and Bloodlust drops.

For this fight you WILL get more DPS out of Glyph of Mangle than Glyph of Bloodletting. Sure, GoBL may be better for QoL but a DPS loss is still a DPS loss, if you want more DPS you have to work for it. 10% more dps from the glyph is an exaggeration of course, it's around 1% more DPS.

Ty for the thoughts!

Will do on the talent spec, was going through different builds that would suit the raid the best. Figured the 18% less dmg would help when I soak things, but good point on the Furor.

Copy on the heals. You're saying we should pop hero at what time then?

[MasterNewbie]

In your opinion maybe. Ill roll with GoM tonight and see where it gets me.

According to simulation, GoM > GoBL for Ultraxion.

[SmokeyIllidan]

According to simulation, GoM > GoBL for Ultraxion.

I laugh at simulation. Simulation also told us at the beginning of this tier that mastery would be better than haste. I'm not saying simulation is always wrong and completely ignorant, but I do laugh at the people who hold it in such high regard. Personal experience is the most determining factor in anyone's DPS.

Also, GoBL is better.

[Deleted]

So I was lookin up the trinket list from the first post, and it seems that the links arent working.
Just that you know Mihir.

[Deleted]

So I was lookin up the trinket list from the first post, and it seems that the links arent working.

its an old list anyway :P

[Croente]

I laugh at simulation. Simulation also told us at the beginning of this tier that mastery would be better than haste. I'm not saying simulation is always wrong and completely ignorant, but I do laugh at the people who hold it in such high regard. Personal experience is the most determining factor in anyone's DPS.

Also, GoBL is better.

agree, after couple of tries with GoL i can tell that this glyph is slightly worse than GoBL, but also is really rng based, if you are unlucky on crits pre >60% you will lose uptime on bleeds, if not that glyph should be theoretically better, but with hours and lights you can lose uptime easily, 10% on mangle would do around 200-250k~ dmg done with haste reforging

[Fiana]

Its more like 300k damage in 25man actually.
And to beat it you have to do additional 4 FBs within first 2 minutes of the fight.

I always play REALLY careful and NEVER lose neither rip or rake but I'm always able to do 3 FBs within first 2 minutes of the fight. Now try to find any top parse with someone who managed to do 7.

Mangle glyph is better, theoretically and practically.

Obviously if you have problems with rip uptime without gobl, there is no doubt that you should go for it.

[tangedyn]

For what it's worth I did a quick look at the top 5 places for 25H Ultraxion on WoL here:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ral-Cat_Druid/

The 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th place cats use Glyph of Mangle, the 2nd place cat uses Glyph of Bloodletting.

[Croente]

Its more like 300k damage in 25man actually.
And to beat it you have to do additional 4 FBs within first 2 minutes of the fight.

I always play REALLY careful and NEVER lose neither rip or rake but I'm always able to do 3 FBs within first 2 minutes of the fight. Now try to find any top parse with someone who managed to do 7.

Mangle glyph is better, theoretically and practically.

Obviously if you have problems with rip uptime without gobl, there is no doubt that you should go for it.

even if you are careful about uptime, downtime can happen, i know its just small part of fight because with bl on start you are getting to 60% pretty fast, but still..
how can it by more than 300k dmg when top parse druid have 2,7m by mangle? -10% with bis gear , maybe with tots and intent its possible but its rare thing these days
edit: i forgot to look on how long that fight was so it cant be compared sry

[Deleted]

1st - 4:23 ... sick

[Fiana]

The difference is minor. And it was minor even in theoretical calculations.

To make it short:
You trade 10% mangle damage for 3 additional FBs.

Obviously mangle is stable and reliable. FB can crit or not crit.
The chance to have 3 fb crits is lower than 50%, 48% in bis gear actually. Are you sure that you want to rely on it?

10% mangle is 270k damage, 3 90k fb crits is the same 270k damage. 2 fb crits 1 hit = 225k damage.

Anyway, we are talking about 150 dps difference tops.

[Macor]

Ty for the thoughts!

Will do on the talent spec, was going through different builds that would suit the raid the best. Figured the 18% less dmg would help when I soak things, but good point on the Furor.

Copy on the heals. You're saying we should pop hero at what time then?

Tip: you don't need to switch to bear for soaking since with SI+BS HoT only scratches you tbh like 40k or something like that i don't remember dropping under like 70% and Hpool is around 160k also BL for healers at 5th minute since than AOE starts ticking every second and healing starts to be very intensive(actually i wasn't paying attention when BL is poped for healers but i know they use FR after 6th HoT)
Personally i don't see use in 18% less dmg taken in bear since you wont be in bear for too long on this fight and maximizing dps is more important but remember when you give FR to raid and switch back to cat only you loose 30%HP and healing received so save BS for that time if it wont come off CD from last HoT soak(and it should be ready) don't use it on soak only SI coz with some tank CD like SW you should be just fine.

[tangedyn]

With SI+BS you can expect to take 300k * .95 * .8 * .5 = 114k damage
It's quite substantial but easily survivable. I bearcat the fight and stay as cat for the first HoT which will take me down to about 30%, more if I get a PWS.

[peki]

check your PMs smokey!

i got mixed feelings on the GoBL v GoM for ultraxion

[Macor]

With SI+BS you can expect to take 300k * .95 * .8 * .5 = 114k damage
It's quite substantial but easily survivable. I bearcat the fight and stay as cat for the first HoT which will take me down to about 30%, more if I get a PWS.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o...?s=5454&e=5801

from last kill i supose i missed something but still average of 40k on me while 120k on ret :P

p.s. don't look rest i played with freaking 200ms that night

[tangedyn]

[21:26:49.639] Ultraxion Hour of Twilight Macorcina 87552
[21:34:18.662] Ultraxion Hour of Twilight Macorcina 47724 (A: 39828)
[21:43:24.457] Ultraxion Hour of Twilight Macorcina 42825 (A: 44727)
[21:45:41.800] Ultraxion Hour of Twilight Macorcina 36524 (A: 51028)

You've been taking 87552 damage before PWS absorbs. Also it looks like you have 2/3 Perseverance and you were also getting PWB, so that explains your numbers 300k * .95 * .8 * .5 * .96 * .8 = 87552

It's nice to have a disc priest taking care of you, eh?

[Jalient]

Tip: you don't need to switch to bear for soaking since with SI+BS HoT only scratches you tbh like 40k or something like that i don't remember dropping under like 70% and Hpool is around 160k also BL for healers at 5th minute since than AOE starts ticking every second and healing starts to be very intensive(actually i wasn't paying attention when BL is poped for healers but i know they use FR after 6th HoT)
Personally i don't see use in 18% less dmg taken in bear since you wont be in bear for too long on this fight and maximizing dps is more important but remember when you give FR to raid and switch back to cat only you loose 30%HP and healing received so save BS for that time if it wont come off CD from last HoT soak(and it should be ready) don't use it on soak only SI coz with some tank CD like SW you should be just fine.

Copy. I'll switch up those talents for sure.

On a side note, to get the tanking debuff, do you start in bear? Or do you start in cat, get a few mangles/rip off and then switch to bear in time for the debuff?

Also, is it almost a guarantee that one will need to use glyphed FR at the 5m mark?