[TV] The Walking Dead (*Spoilers*)

[Beery Swine]

Bollocks. You can think what you want, but I have a hard time believing we're watching the same pixels.

Way to back up your opinion with examples and evidence.

[Graeham]

Just stop with this "free pass" bullshit. Obviously he doesn't because people like you don't like him. It is just a difference of opinion.

'Fans not liking him' doesn't mean much though. I'm talking about actual events where he's explicitly blamed for stuff and accepts responsibility for his actions.

I mean, he outright stated that he wouldn't have helped anyone else in Jessie's situation. That's not the Rick I remember - he should be called out on that.

[Beery Swine]

Didn't he only punch Aaron once in the face? Is that considered "beating the shit out of" someone?

Punched him so hard he was knocked out I think qualifies, but I don't really need that for my argument, I can go into how he was ready to kill Aaron if his group didn't get back in an hour, which is hardly enough time for them to scout the area, investigate and get back, let alone enough time if they run into a herd. He's losing himself.

[Rabblexthree]

'Fans not liking him' doesn't mean much though. I'm talking about actual events where he's explicitly blamed for stuff and accepts responsibility for his actions.

I mean, he outright stated that he wouldn't have helped anyone else in Jessie's situation. That's not the Rick I remember - he should be called out on that.

I gotcha. I do agree that he answered that question completely wrong. I really didn't like that part.

I was waiting for him to say yes. When he said no I just shook my head.

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Punched him so hard he was knocked out I think qualifies, but I don't really need that for my argument, I can go into how he was ready to kill Aaron if his group didn't get back in an hour, which is hardly enough time for them to scout the area, investigate and get back, let alone enough time if they run into a herd. He's losing himself.

I would argue that the last people they trusted about going to a community tried to eat them and can see why he was being overly cautious. That was the shows point in him not trusting Aaron.

If it was the zombie apocalypse and a guy came up to you looking like he was dressed from a J Crew catalog, you might be a little suspicious too. Two years in at this point, by the way.

[Beery Swine]

I would argue that the last people they trusted about going to a community tried to eat them and can see why he was being overly cautious. That was the shows point in him not trusting Aaron.

If it the zombie apocalypse and a guy came up to you looking like he was dressed from a J Crew catalog, you might be a little suspicious too. Two years in at this point, by the way.

Ugh, why do I have to keep repeating shit.

There's a really big difference between suspicious and "I'm gonna kill this bound and unarmed prisoner in an hour". If I was Aaron at that point I'd be like, fuck it, you can't play nice with others so you won't be welcomed in our community.

[KrazyK923]

"This bound and unarmed prisoner" that sent his friends to a random location they have no idea is actually safe or not.

Its weird people who like to criticize Rick always seem to be ignoring context. Doesn't make what he's done acceptable, but it always seems like its easier for people who just don't like him to bitch about him without context.

Hell, I've been critical of Rick this past season pretty hard, but I at least understand when he does things based on context and precedent. Some of you seem to take every single action he does in a vacuum and then wonder why people are disagreeing.

[Graeham]

There wasn't much reason to treat Aaron as a threat. At least not after he repeatedly proved himself. If Rick's so distrusting of strangers why didn't he view Jessie with similar suspicion? He doubted her for all of a minute and then became creepily obsessed with her only for to conveniently turn out that she needed rescuing from Pete.

He's not a great leader - his leadership skills are very much an informed ability since so far he's only led anyone not in the 'main cast' to be killed.

[Rabblexthree]

Ugh, why do I have to keep repeating shit.

There's a really big difference between suspicious and "I'm gonna kill this bound and unarmed prisoner in an hour". If I was Aaron at that point I'd be like, fuck it, you can't play nice with others so you won't be welcomed in our community.

I guess for the same reason other people have to repeat themselves.

The last group who welcomed them into their community TRIED TO EAT THEM.

[KrazyK923]

There wasn't much reason to treat Aaron as a threat. At least not after he repeatedly proved himself. If Rick's so distrusting of strangers why didn't he view Jessie with similar suspicion? He doubted her for all of a minute and then became creepily obsessed with her only for to conveniently turn out that she needed rescuing from Pete.

He's not a great leader - his leadership skills are very much an informed ability since so far he's only led anyone not in the 'main cast' to be killed.

Once again, its like you are taking his actions in a vacuum. Once he learned that Aaron didn't give directions to a trap, they all went to Alexandria. What's so hard to understand.

Aaron was very much a threat in their eyes. He was a stranger promising something that they all thought was impossible, and wouldn't actually lead them to his group at first.

Why are you repeatedly ignoring the context of the situation to bash the character? The last time they heard of something too good to be true...PEOPLE TRIED TO EAT THEM.

[Beery Swine]

"This bound and unarmed prisoner" that sent his friends to a random location they have no idea is actually safe or not.

Its weird people who like to criticize Rick always seem to be ignoring context. Doesn't make what he's done acceptable, but it always seems like its easier for people who just don't like him to bitch about him without context.

Hell, I've been critical of Rick this past season pretty hard, but I at least understand when he does things based on context and precedent. Some of you seem to take every single action he does in a vacuum and then wonder why people are disagreeing.

Dude, seriously, show me where I said I didn't like Rick. I'd love to see that, because it would mean someone else has been posting shit in my name and I'd have to change my password here. I like the guy, but wrong is wrong. You're basically arguing that someone who's met tons of nice black people but then gets mugged by a black gang yet manages to, say, grab one of their bats and beat the shit out of them all, you're saying that that person has every right to beat the shit out of every other black person that crosses their path. Because of the context.

Some people =/= all people. Rick wasn't treating outsiders as individuals and he was forgetting all the times that outsiders turned out to be pretty cool and joined his group. He was not thinking clearly and I really don't get how or why someone would defend him for almost killing Aaron, regardless of whether or not Aaron turns out to be on the level.

[Graeham]

The problem is that once Aaron was kind enough to welcome Rick's group into Alexandria Rick still acted like a major prick. He didn't seek to compromise - the very first thing he did was plot to take over and yet that's conveniently overlooked after plot device after plot device excuses him from any real consequences.

I don't hate Rick - I just find it dull that he's always painted as being in the right. It'd be more interesting in my eyes if Jessie was the violent one and he screwed up badly and had to redeem himself in Deanna's eyes. Maybe through saving Aidan out on a run or something.

[KrazyK923]

You're basically arguing that someone who's met tons of nice black people but then gets mugged by a black gang yet manages to, say, grab one of their bats and beat the shit out of them all, you're saying that that person has every right to beat the shit out of every other black person that crosses their path. Because of the context.

Are you serious here? lol. No, that's not what I'm saying at all. But kudos to you for trying to devolve my point in to me being racist.

My god. Really? I'm not even going to continue with you after that hilarious nonsense.

He didn't seek to compromise - the very first thing he did was plot to take over and yet that's conveniently overlooked after plot device after plot device excuses him from any real consequences.

Except they weren't plotting to take over. The show itself states this. Once again we're back to arguing what "is." They were preparing for if Alexandria fell due to how uncannily lucky they were. I'm pretty sure they could have rolled up in there and taken most of the Alexandrians out if they wanted. Preparing for the worst situation is not planning to take over the city.

This thread might be a lost cause outside of waiting for Bill Nye to post spoilers. And even then it seems like he's just copypasting it from that spoiler website. Just a bunch of people completely making shit up that the show has explicitly said otherwise.

I don't hate Rick - I just find it dull that he's always painted as being in the right.

Where is he being painted as being in the right? People aren't saying that here. The show isn't saying that. Maybe you are, but you're wrong. The show is very obviously making Rick out to be incredibly grey and almost waving over to the side of a villain.

[draykorinee]

I don't hate Rick - I just find it dull that he's always painted as being in the right.

No he isn't. He is flawed and makes mistake, everyone acknowledges that.

[Ciddy]

I see Rick as more of a gray hat. He's not going to risk his own life to save a random stranger from a walker swarm, for example (and has in fact demonstrated this a time or two). Guy with a big S on his chest in a red cape flying around saving people = not Rick.

But he's not going out and killing random people just for the lulz either. So far, all of his non-walker kills that I can recall have either been in self defense (Shane, Claimers group, etc) or because Rick felt that his victim was a threat to the safety of him/his family/his group and wouldn't go away until killed (that dude in the prison, Gareth's group, etc).

Bob is the only one you can really argue about, and even then, I'd still say Rick genuinely saw him as a threat. Even if he didn't kill her, he did attack Sasha.

And, as far as I know, Rick's never gunned down his entire group for questioning his decisions (which they have done, on multiple occasions, and he's listened/heard them out). He's also never had a collection of fish tanks with reanimated human heads. That's what makes him different from someone like the Governor in my eyes. He's also never lured people into his group with the promise of sanctuary/protection then said "ok, now that we all have our guns pointed at you, do exactly as we say. we will butcher you and eat you if you say no" like Gareth.

I'm not trying to say Rick is a genuine hero or saint. I'm just saying he's not Hitler either. I think he's a gray hat who doesn't lean too far in either direction. He basically just wants his family and group (prioritized in that order, I believe) to survive, and everyone else to fuck off.

You can argue that he has some personal gain motives for going after Pete because he wants Jessie, and I totally give you that one. The only point I think he's crossed the line so far is when he started waving his gun around at bystanders. That could've ended badly if Michonne hadn't stepped in. And really, even in the real world, I'm pretty sure a cop doesn't typically go into a strange house alone, with no backup, to handle a domestic violence situation. Considering he WAS a cop in the real world before shit hit the fan, Rick should've known a lot better than that.

Anyway...don't want to get too deep into this argument about how good or bad Rick is, but those are my thoughts on him. Gray hat who could easily go either direction, and of course he's a human being who is capable of mistakes (especially considering how much stress someone in a leadership position must be under in a zombie apocalypse scenario).

[Arrowstormen]

You can argue that he has some personal gain motives for going after Pete because he wants Jessie, and I totally give you that one. The only point I think he's crossed the line so far is when he started waving his gun around at bystanders. That could've ended badly if Michonne hadn't stepped in. And really, even in the real world, I'm pretty sure a cop doesn't typically go into a strange house alone, with no backup, to handle a domestic violence situation. Considering he WAS a cop in the real world before shit hit the fan, Rick should've known a lot better than that.

Part of Rick's argument was that the world no longer was how it used to be, and when he looked around, he saw people being totally oblivious about what a huge issue Pete was. Didn't help that Deanna knew about it but didn't dare to do anything about it. Plus, it wasn't a "strange house", he knew Jessie reasonably well.

I think Rick will see the value of bigger communities soon enough, but his point about Deanna and the rest of the town's way of doing things was sound enough.

[Graeham]

Rick, knowing Jessie? Eh, that's a stretch - they've only known each other for a few days at most. He even outright admitted that if it was anyone other than her he wouldn't get involved. He doesn't care about 'justice' - he feels a selfish attraction to her and that's the driving force behind his decision. So he doesn't have much room to criticise Deanna for turning a blind eye when he himself admits that he would do the same thing if it were someone else.

[Rabblexthree]

Rick, knowing Jessie? Eh, that's a stretch - they've only known each other for a few days at most. He even outright admitted that if it was anyone other than her he wouldn't get involved. He doesn't care about 'justice' - he feels a selfish attraction to her and that's the driving force behind his decision. So he doesn't have much room to criticise Deanna for turning a blind eye when he himself admits that he would do the same thing if it were someone else.

I don't know the exact timeline but I feel it has been more than few days. At least weeks maybe a month.

Correct me if you have proof please.

[Bill Nye the Spy]

Well a lot of people will probably be happy about this. I was wrong about some stuff.

Do we see Morgan in the finale? Yeah, Morgan is seen camping out in the forest during the opening sequence.

Does he make it to the ASZ? Yeah! (Along with Daryl and Aaron)

Does Carl lose an eye? No

Does the ASZ get overrun by walkers? No, the safe zone does not get overrun.

Does anyone get killed by walkers? No.

Do we find out what the ‘W’ means? Yes. Wolves.

Do we see The Wolves at all? Yes, a few of them.

Does anyone die? Nobody in Rick’s group dies.

So I'm guessing Deanna probably dies to Pete then.

Also they're saving the horde for the first half next season, with Carl losing his eye.

[KrazyK923]

...Carol survives?

DON'T SCREW WITH ME HERE.

[Bill Nye the Spy]

...Carol survives?

DON'T SCREW WITH ME HERE.

Yep it looks to be that way.