Marksmanship Rotation

[heinevilla]

Was wondering which rotation i should use my spells in, to get the maximum dmg/dps? Right now i just use them a bit random.... which happens to give low dmg/dps!!!!! :-( any ideas?

[Indiglo]

What I found to be effective was, Serpent>Chimera>Arcane until your out of focus (usually 3)>Steady weaving arcane when possible>Chimera when it is off CD>repeat. And of course Aimed when it procs. Under the Rapid Fire effect it changes a little (less Steady more Arcane). Also the patch kind of fucked us, so don't expect pre-4.0 DPS.

[Deleted]

Yeh, above is pretty usual. I use: Serpent->Chimera->Arcane until out of focus->Steady->Chimera when possible->repeat from Arcane and Aimed when it procs.

[Kurgosh]

Because Chimera and Arcane have similar damage at the moment, I believe the more efficient open is Serpent, Arcane x2, Chimera (refreshes Serpent 3 seconds later). Not 100% sure on that, and it's really rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic of our sad dps though.

[Moyotoshi]

Whenever I try Marks, I end up falling into the rotation of: Chim, Steadyx2, Arcanex2, Steadyx2, repeat and add Aimed Shot on proc after Steadyx2. It's almost as mindless as pre-4.0 Marks.

[Nuronv]

As Moyotoshi pointed out you are best off trying to use Steadyshot in pairs to keep the talented haste bonus active

[grimkiller]

I have found with Marks that Arcane glyphed does about the same as Chimera at half the focus cost, so I only use Chimera to refresh SSting, else spam Arcane/Steady mix and of course instant aimed whenever it procs.
Did like 8 dummy tests of varying length and arcane spam with chimera as a ssting refresher only yielded the best results for me.
Either Chimera costs too much, arcane doesn't cost enough, or something is wrong, but arcane spam outdoes chimera on cd by like 300 dps.

[heinevilla]

What I found to be effective was, Serpent>Chimera>Arcane until your out of focus (usually 3)>Steady weaving arcane when possible>Chimera when it is off CD>repeat. And of course Aimed when it procs. Under the Rapid Fire effect it changes a little (less Steady more Arcane). Also the patch kind of fucked us, so don't expect pre-4.0 DPS.

This rotation just increased my DPS with 1500! :-D amazing. ty dude :-)))) Believe it works very well :-)

[Indiglo]

I have found with Marks that Arcane glyphed does about the same as Chimera at half the focus cost, so I only use Chimera to refresh SSting, else spam Arcane/Steady mix and of course instant aimed whenever it procs.
Did like 8 dummy tests of varying length and arcane spam with chimera as a ssting refresher only yielded the best results for me.
Either Chimera costs too much, arcane doesn't cost enough, or something is wrong, but arcane spam outdoes chimera on cd by like 300 dps.

True, but by the time Chimera is off CD Serpent is about to wear off also.

[Moyotoshi]

I find that after the second Chimera, if you've got enough passive haste, it's possible to get off two cycles of Arcanex2Steadyx2 before Chimera again.

Serpent Sting stays up for 15 seconds. Assuming no 10% haste buff and normal amounts of haste at 80, your Steady will be somewhere between 1.5 and 1.8 second cast. With Imp Steady Shot, it will drop to 1.2-1.4 second cast. With our new 1sec GCD and assuming a 1.3 second Steady cast, no Master Marksman procs and no latency, a typical rotation can look like:

0: Chimera
1: Steady Shot
2.3: Steady Shot
3.6: Arcane Shot
4.6: Arcane Shot
5.6: Steady Shot
6.9: Steady Shot
7.9: Arcane Shot
8.9: Arcane Shot
10.2: Steady Shot
11.5: Steady Shot
12.8: ???

That's a good 2.2 seconds before Serpent is set to wear off. It's possible to get in two Arcane Shots, but then you won't have the focus for a Chimera to refresh. It's possible to get in an Arcane Shot and Steady Shot, but that would put your next shot at 15.1, after Serpent Sting would wear off. Your best bets here would be do either A) start the rotation over again here with Chimera or B) throw in a third Steady, then Chimera, Arcane, Steadyx2.

As for Master Marksman, it will probably not proc more than once per 15 seconds, and if used between Steady pairs, it will push the rotation back by one second, leaving a solid 1 second before Serpent Sting is set to wear off.

The short version is this: If you have enough haste and low latency, you will be able to fire two sets of Arcanex2Steadyx2 between Chimera Shots. If you're not comfortable with your haste, it's safe enough to fire only one set between Chimera Shots.

[zaronn]

keep in mind that varying haste rating between hunters is going to make everyone's 'rotation' a little different, I currently have 25% haste, and ~40% mastery proc rate. with ~52% crit

The "rotation" Ive found to be best for dps is to apply serpent, then arcane until ~20 focus. then steady shot x2 to gain the buff and enough focus to cast chimera to refresh my sting, then max focus with steady and dump it with arcane, then steady enough to shoot a chimera, since sting is low duration at this point.

So basically, use arcane shot as much as possible, keep iss proc on, and chimera only when sting is less than 4 seconds, and aimed on proc.
When under rapid fire, it becomes a little different due to the extra focus regen, but this is a good thing.

On a side note, WTB old serpent sting glyph (21 sec duration)

so basically to do max dps as a hunter, you need to get away from the 'rotation' way of thinking and use more of a resource management approach, you never want your sting to fall off, but you also dont want to use chimera shot other than to refresh it, since glyphed arcane shot does as much damage as a chimera shot, for half the focus.

Readiness is also kinda lame at the moment since then only purpose Ive found for it in pve is to refresh rapid fire.

face it, we are a new class now. the old mana using hunter is dead and this is the new hunter class. We still do the same damage we did pre patch, IF played correctly. its all about damage done compared to focus cost and planning your shots/focus 2-4 globals in advance.. the gap between good hunters and bad is larger than ever

[Moyotoshi]

so basically to do max dps as a hunter, you need to get away from the 'rotation' way of thinking and use more of a resource management approach, you never want your sting to fall off, but you also dont want to use chimera shot other than to refresh it, since glyphed arcane shot does as much damage as a chimera shot, for half the focus.

The problem is that in order to keep ISS up, you need to pair Steadies. After a focus dump, two Steady Shots will put you at just enough focus to pop two Arcane Shots or one Chimera. It becomes very 'rotation-y' after the focus dump.

[zaronn]

0: Chimera
1: Steady Shot
2.3: Steady Shot
3.6: Arcane Shot
4.6: Arcane Shot
5.6: Steady Shot
6.9: Steady Shot
7.9: Arcane Shot
8.9: Arcane Shot
10.2: Steady Shot
11.5: Steady Shot
12.8: ???

This sounds good, except you should never lead with chimera shot. it costs way too much focus, for the same damage as arcane. there is no reason to cast it immediately after casting serpent sting, because the duration is still fresh. you will get more damage per focus out of arcane shot, while only using chimera to refresh the sting

[Moyotoshi]

I wasn't suggesting leading with Chimera. I was starting the 'rotation' from the first Chimera, when the sting was fresh again.

[zaronn]

The problem is that in order to keep ISS up, you need to pair Steadies. After a focus dump, two Steady Shots will put you at just enough focus to pop two Arcane Shots or one Chimera. It becomes very 'rotation-y' after the focus dump.

depending on varying haste/regen buffs you get during the fight the number of shots will change. not to mention rapid fire usage. it is rotationesque but not a hands down rotation like it was before 4.0. in order to maximize dps you have to pay close attention to your current focus and become VERY familliar with your character's specific focus regen rate., getting in an extra arcane shot, and one less steady shot is a dps increase. keeping in mind to always do steady in sets of 2+ (the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc will refresh the buff also)

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 12:32 PM ----------

I think the reason we are having differnt optimal results is because of differences in gear/haste... I personally have a lot of haste so I regen focus pretty quickly, and depending on which buffs are active it changes even more

[ASO]

The problem with saying its a rotation is as everyone said...Focus isn't a one-way street. Your haste will vary throughout a fight, which affects your regen. Your procs will vary which affects your rotation and your regen. Hell, even getting different gear will affect your rotation.

Just play and get over it. Learn to feel your regen (I'm working on a mod) and you'll be fine. OK, that didn't make much sense, but the way2play is to literally just learn how your regen feels and how to know you'll have enough for a Chimera as soon as it's off of CD while still pumping out max damage.

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 12:50 PM ----------

The problem with saying its a rotation is as everyone said...Focus isn't a one-way street. Your haste will vary throughout a fight, which affects your regen. Your procs will vary which affects your rotation and your regen. Hell, even getting different gear will affect your rotation.

Just play and get over it. Learn to feel your regen (I'm working on a mod) and you'll be fine. OK, that didn't make much sense, but the way2play is to literally just learn how your regen feels and how to know you'll have enough for a Chimera as soon as it's off of CD while still pumping out max damage.

[Granitefist]

personally as a MM hunter I've been tweaking my gear through the reforging ability to increase my mastery level which I've found helps a great deal with my dps. I've been playing around with rotations after discussing different ones with various people, and what I've found to give me the highest dps was the following...

SS>Chimera Shot >Arcane x2> Steady Shot (til improved steady procs)> arcane x2> Steady Shot (til proc)> Chimera (if it's needed to refresh SS)> Arcane x2> Steady Shot (til procs again)

The reason for waiting til the Steady Shot proc is that the haste gain will regen your focus enough that if you refresh Chimera and hit 2 Arcane shot right after, you still don't run out of focus.......Aimed shot whenever it procs in your rotation...I was able to run a 10 min fight on the heroic target dummy in IF and never had a focus issue, and was able to maintain my dps throughout

One other note...with the Glyph of Kill Shot...it was a nice dps boost in ICC on the bosses being able to pop off back to back shots...then using Readiness to refresh that same shot, and having a 2 shot hit again...Readiness is definately nice, but only in the limited capacity, but I found it is still useful for this one reason at least

[Niviex]

I <3 the threats where people are to lazy to find out a "rotation" for themselves.
I find it more of a priority/rotation now, a bit of both...
Keep up Serpent Sting, use Chimera Shot when possible, Aimed shot when procc; are the standards.
All I can give as a tip is: your Haste affects your DPS and rotation A LOT.

[Moyotoshi]

RE: Readiness and Kill Shot Glyph,

Does Readiness reset the cooldown on the Kill Shot glyph's effect as well?

[LQDMTL]

There's actually a pretty good discussion on the EJ forums which has me rethinking the SrS vs CS debate. They've shown, in recent tests, that speccing for improved serpent sting, refreshing it when it fades and ignoring CS while alternating spam of SS and AS is actually a DPS increase (depending on your crit, haste, etc). The running theory is that it'll show slightly less dps on the dummy vs a CS rotation but outperform on a raid boss, especially in fights with a lot of target swapping. <<< that last bit depends on your guild raids/pugs in ICC and the role you're typically asked to perform as Hunter. I can say that at least in my case I'm very, very rarely ever asked to sit focused on one target. It's my job to burn adds, which accounts for almost every boss in ICC at some point.

I will be testing a new spec tonight to account for this, both on the dummy and in ICC. I'm not pulling CS off of my bars so it WILL be available to me if I feel this new method isn't cutting it. And certainly if I hit the dummy and can't pull at least 7k I'll be concerned. But... we'll see.

If this works out (when it mathematically shouldn't) then I think Blizz has some serious work to do in fixing our shots. It shouldn't even be viable to skip our 31 point special. It should define us, not make us sigh in frustration.

Side note: Has anyone heard about any fix for our weapons falling apart as we dps? They either need to fix this or make [Duct Tape] available on reagent vendors. Seriously, this is getting annoying.