Mages need to be nerf

[Kynyia]

Because holy shock does so much damage right.
And people do complain about WoG and it IS pretty broken as it stands now but with a new system in place, it was bound to happen. Mage mechanics haven't changed all too much with 4.0 yet blizzard hasn't done too much to mage them more balanced.
You're comparing things that aren't even remotely the same.

Yes he is? They have been and probably will always be the most balanced class. You're talking about things that are "broken". He gave another example. Blizzard themselves have even stated that they are balancing classes around 85 And at 85, they are UP.

[Andok]

Again, noone is listening to Ghostcrawler. He said that at lvl 85, mages are actually somewhat UP. When they nerfed mages on beta, their damage dropped below a TANK'S. Get that through your head, mages don't need to be nerfed, their utility doesn't need to be taken away, it's the NUMBERS. Ghostcrawler said that the blizz staff is going to bring 2 seperate numbers for lvl 80 and lvl 81-85. Mage damage at 80 is somewhat bugged, so are a lot of things. For example, lets go back to SS rogues. They shouldn't be NERFED, they shouldn't lose stealth, or shadowstep, or ambush, their numbers just need to be tweaked. That goes for mages too. So stop your QQ-ing, sit in the corner and listen to what the creators of the game tell you. Either that, or, if you really feel that your "game experience" is ruined by that, QUIT.

[Wælcyrie]

Was fun in pvp today.

Strand of ancients with a ally premade with 2 healers and 4 mages..

Mage did 35 kills in 1 round and over 1.2 million damage with no deaths.

Just from ice lance and frostbolt spam..

[Andok]

Was fun in pvp today.

Strand of ancients with a ally premade with 2 healers and 4 mages..

Mage did 35 kills in 1 round and over 1.2 million damage with no deaths.

Just from ice lance and frostbolt spam..

Was fun in pvp yesterday.

Faced off against a group of 3 ally rogues in arathi basin.

They ended up 36-4, 31-7, and 33-5.

All from SS+ambush.

People never listen, do they?

[Swizzle]

Because holy shock does so much damage right.
And people do complain about WoG and it IS pretty broken as it stands now but with a new system in place, it was bound to happen. Mage mechanics haven't changed all too much with 4.0 yet blizzard hasn't done too much to mage them more balanced.
You're comparing things that aren't even remotely the same.

Not saying it does, but I can get away with using it as damage and using WoG to heal myself, that's 1 less spell than frost uses yet people complain about it and 1 more spell than arcane uses and people complained about that too. The difference is, I'm saying from beta experience that there actually is a broken mechanic that people should be worried about, while this thread is bitching about live. If I was complaining about Sacred Shield, then you would have a point, but I'm making a valid point about a truly broken game mechanic.

The three mages who have dueled me so far have done about the same damage I'm doing on my mage on live, which is to say not threatening when I'm sitting at 93k HP and they're critting me (which happens like once in 40 casts due to the decayed combat ratings) for roughly 12-15k, which is about a single WoG heal. Basically, mages are quite balanced at 85, and if either of those frost mages spammed me with just Ice Lance, I would not drop below 85% hp due to them not putting a MS on me. Don't even get me started on a holy paladin using HoW...

[MonsieuRoberts]

Nice argument.

[Andok]

Not saying it does, but I can get away with using it as damage and using WoG to heal myself, that's 1 less spell than frost uses yet people complain about it and 1 more spell than arcane uses and people complained about that too. The difference is, I'm saying from beta experience that there actually is a broken mechanic that people should be worried about, while this thread is bitching about live. If I was complaining about Sacred Shield, then you would have a point, but I'm making a valid point about a truly broken game mechanic.

The three mages who have dueled me so far have done about the same damage I'm doing on my mage on live, which is to say not threatening when I'm sitting at 93k HP and they're critting me (which happens like once in 40 casts due to the decayed combat ratings) for roughly 12-15k, which is about a single WoG heal. Basically, mages are quite balanced at 85, and if either of those frost mages spammed me with just Ice Lance, I would not drop below 85% hp due to them not putting a MS on me. Don't even get me started on a holy paladin using HoW...

That's the point. People don't understand that patch 4.0.1 brought mages the numbers at 85. That's why their damage doesn't increase that much from lvl 80 to lvl 85. At lvl 80, you get 11k crit ice lances, while everyone else is sitting at 25-30k hp. At lvl 85, you're getting 14k crits, while everyone else is sitting at 90-110k hp. Yes, from then on, damage increases, but from wrath raid gear, to cata ilvl 333's, class damage, particularly mages, barely increase, while health pools triple. That's why now, most classes are getting burst down even faster that in Wrath. Give it some time, and it'll fix itself.

ENUFF QQ-ing!!!!!

[Crackleslap]

Speaking of OP...

Anyone been destroyed by low level rogues yet? In WSG last night rogues were absolutely demolishing people. We had a 3200 hp level 39 warrior carrying the flag and I had a bubble on him as disc and a rogue ambushed, vanished, ambushed and killed the warrior through the bubble =/ It was a sad day, lol.

its the same with feral druids, im 1 wshotting almost every 1, even those rogues

[Xuvial]

Simply put, Cataclysm design + mechanics have been violently shoved into WotLK. Guess what happens? A SHITSTORM, that's what happens. This time, that shitstorm happens to be caused by Mages (and Shadowpriests, and Demo Locks, and Moonkins, but since this is a Mage QQ thread lets convienently forget about all that). We have two groups of players playing two different games at the same time (lvl 80's in WotLK and lvl 85's on PTR/Beta).

Very rough example:

BetaTester: Blizzard, Rogues are doing very low damage! We don't see this damage scaling at all even at T11, please fix it!
Blizzard: Very well, we will shortly implement a hotfix to improve your damage into the PTR.
Rogue: Thank you Blizard, we have seen an improvement in our DPS! Please keep this change!
Blizzard: We have tested this at T11 and it seems to be scaling well, therefore we will implement this hotfix onto LIVE servers to ensure there are no bugs conflicting with Live Servers.
*few days later*
WotLKNoob: WTF IS THIS SHIT, ROGUES ARE EXPLODING EVERYONE. FIX IT BLIZZARD.
Blizzard: Damage has been balanced around level 85, please be patien--
WotLKNoob: *in raging tears* I SAID FIX IT NOW!! ROGUES ARE OP, NERF THEM NOW!!!!!!
Blizzard: .......

Now repeat the above scenario with Mages, Warriors, etc and also factor in all the issues (healing, 1-button Arcane Mages, infinite mana and all the other shit that's going on). The commotion is being caused by impatient children - when a child screams and throws tantrums, you have to divert his attention to something else. But in thise case, we have to wait over 1 month (too long for a child) before their attention can be diverted to leveling & questing.

[Pheno]

Trolled.

[bigjenk]

Sounds almost identical to what they said about retribution paladins pre-WotLK, and they were completely unbalanced for half of that expansion. Good time to be a mage.

By op for half an expansion you mean the 5 and a half months until 3.1 when they were only op for the first half of the 3.08 patch before they started the massive nerfs?

[shotdownsoul]

Caster's have always been OP. Throughout all of WotLK, most top end teams were casting cleaves with a few melee based teams.

I think Blizzard thinks "because you have to cast, you'll get extra damage" which is fail in a sense anyway. I'm not complaining, as I don't really care. PvP in this game is broken anyways.

Mages and Locks have a ridiculous amount of tools, fear/cs/freeze/polyLOL/pet stun/silence, etc and a lot of CCs. What do classes like Ret Paladins and Warriors get? Oh warrior's get a fear on a long CD, Ret paladins get one stun that lasts 6 seconds.

What do druids get? a 6 second cyclone that has very little on the DR and can be spammed for 10 seconds (correct me if I'm wrong).

What do hunters get? Frost Trap and depending on spec, an interrupt.

I mean certain classes don't have enough utility, IE. most melee based classes and a few range. Shaman's get Hex, a VERY short interrupt, totems , etc.

And reading off ArenaJunkies, classes like Hunters, DKs, and Warriors get no love.
Certain classes have nothing to deal with CC (paladins as a whole) besides a trinket and Aura Mastery (which has been nerfed so hard to the ground you get maybe two casts off before getting feared). Not saying it's just paladins, I'm saying paladin is an example.

And I love how all the cute mages and warlocks and shamans etc will come into this thread and troll this post, because remember, OP is the class that you aren't.

Looking at the top 5 s8 teams, let's take a look. (http://www.arenajunkies.com/rankings/3v3)

1 mage 1 shaman 1 warlock
1 druid 1 warlock 1 warrior
1 druid 1 rogue 1 warlock
1 druid 1 shaman 1 warlock
1 hunter 1 paladin 1 warrior

3 Druid
2 Shaman
3 Warlock
1 Mage
1 Hunter
1 Paladin
1 Warrior
1 Warrior
1 Rogue

Ironically, all the casters are on top with the exception of mages (scroll down though, you'll see more mages, t5 is just an example)

Now of course this doesn't represent arena as a whole, but these are some of the most skilled playeres in the world. Keep in mind their class has a lot of uniqueness to their play styles and why they play that class. I'm willing to bet top teams don't play Warlocks and Druids because they just happened to roll that class, but because that class may have the most utility.

Of course this post has just been rambling now, I'll read a few angry mages and warlock posts tomorrow for sure.

And of course, patch 4.0.1 is not really a real representation of how Cataclysm will be. Most people are missing 50,000 health and 40,000+ mana on their pools. And tons of spells, etc. It's bad to say "mages are OP" right now because patch 4.0.1 is the most stupid patch wow has endorsed yet.

The point of this post it to prove caster's had it easy in Arena all along. If you had an opening for a split second where you could get a few casts off it was pretty much GG unless the healer was spot on and not caught in some ridiculous crowd control.

[xxf2dxx]

This just in, people complaining about balance at low levels. After many hours of discussing this with my colleagues, we have determined you to fail horrendously. Please refer to the, "How to commit suicide" panel mentioned later in this program. This has been Slow poking news on Channel 82,244.

But really, are you guys seriously feeding this sad troll? I'm also still trying to figure out why anyone thinks Blizzard Devs actually show up and read this forum. Last I heard, they had their OWN FORUM.

[Swizzle]

Caster's have always been OP. Throughout all of WotLK, most top end teams were casting cleaves with a few melee based teams.

I think Blizzard thinks "because you have to cast, you'll get extra damage" which is fail in a sense anyway. I'm not complaining, as I don't really care. PvP in this game is broken anyways.

Mages and Locks have a ridiculous amount of tools, fear/cs/freeze/polyLOL/pet stun/silence, etc and a lot of CCs. What do classes like Ret Paladins and Warriors get? Oh warrior's get a fear on a long CD, Ret paladins get one stun that lasts 6 seconds.

What do druids get? a 6 second cyclone that has very little on the DR and can be spammed for 10 seconds (correct me if I'm wrong).

What do hunters get? Frost Trap and depending on spec, an interrupt.

I mean certain classes don't have enough utility, IE. most melee based classes and a few range. Shaman's get Hex, a VERY short interrupt, totems , etc.

And reading off ArenaJunkies, classes like Hunters, DKs, and Warriors get no love.
Certain classes have nothing to deal with CC (paladins as a whole) besides a trinket and Aura Mastery (which has been nerfed so hard to the ground you get maybe two casts off before getting feared). Not saying it's just paladins, I'm saying paladin is an example.

And I love how all the cute mages and warlocks and shamans etc will come into this thread and troll this post, because remember, OP is the class that you aren't.

Looking at the top 5 s8 teams, let's take a look. (http://www.arenajunkies.com/rankings/3v3)


Ironically, all the casters are on top with the exception of mages (scroll down though, you'll see more mages, t5 is just an example)

Now of course this doesn't represent arena as a whole, but these are some of the most skilled playeres in the world. Keep in mind their class has a lot of uniqueness to their play styles and why they play that class. I'm willing to bet top teams don't play Warlocks and Druids because they just happened to roll that class, but because that class may have the most utility.

Of course this post has just been rambling now, I'll read a few angry mages and warlock posts tomorrow for sure.

And of course, patch 4.0.1 is not really a real representation of how Cataclysm will be. Most people are missing 50,000 health and 40,000+ mana on their pools. And tons of spells, etc. It's bad to say "mages are OP" right now because patch 4.0.1 is the most stupid patch wow has endorsed yet.

The point of this post it to prove caster's had it easy in Arena all along. If you had an opening for a split second where you could get a few casts off it was pretty much GG unless the healer was spot on and not caught in some ridiculous crowd control.

Casters became OP in arena when the haste scaling got out of hand towards the end of wrath. I mean, out of the top 15 players, you can say that only 6 are casters and it seems to be warlock dominated, not mage. Blizz even agrees with you which is why haste is being scaled waaaaaaaay down in cataclysm, so your point is both correct and moot.

[Mixxy]

"DON'T NERF ME BRO!"

Had to be said.

[Unferth]

I dunno, I've done BGs in full raid gear and no PvP trinket since the patch and I've yet to be destroyed by anything, mostly because everything dies before they get the chance to kill me.

I find this VERY hard to believe.

[brakke]

mages are very strong in pvp atm, wil be more balanced at 85. there is only 1 class i have trouble with when i pvp with my resto druid (14kish res). stuns, silence, freeze, spellsteal. very frustrating at times. then again season is over so who cares.

[Yakusai]

Yet another case where PvE completely screws PvP over. PvE is the reason PvP is in a bad state. They should just remove pixeldragons completely.

Uh for real? This game was released with the intention of being a purely PvE game, and organized PvP was later added due to requests from players. Since then, it's PvE that has been fucked over countless times because of PvP. Abilities that weren't broken or overpowered in PvE were nerfed, making them absolute shit, because of PvP.

[Swizzle]

I find this VERY hard to believe.

Then you haven't run into me in a BG yet have you?

---------- Post added 2010-10-25 at 05:26 PM ----------

For your Viewing pleasure:

[KassieDS]

Glass cannons that happen to be able to blink out of stun, iceblock out of everything (including silence which is ridiculous

You must play prot if you're complaining you cant kill them in a silence/stun.