Rogue Sub pvp

[olhakio]

Hey rogues!

So i just leveld my rogue to level 85 for pvp purposes, atm i am trying to go sub, becaus thats what i heard was the best.
i think i am doing kinda ok, but i do not really know when to use surten abilitys.

So i what i would like to know is when do i use hemo, or when do i use backstab? should i use rupture or erviscerate? when should shadom dance be popt etc. (Maybe like a beginners guide to sub pvp if anybody has a link that would be awsome!)

I am not 100% if my spec is allright so here is my armory; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...stinnky/simple

Thanks in advantage!

[iamftwlol]

Your best bet would be to switch from Sub to Muti if you intend to do PvP. Sub is incredibly weak right now and all the spec really offers is a ton of defensive CDs and no real damage output.

As for Hemo, I prefer to open with Premed > Ambush > Hemo > Backstab > Evis for most targets

Premed > Garrote > Hemo > Backstab > Evis for casters

Backstab spam pretty much at all times, and save your finisher for a KS as soon as the target gets low to prevent healing/fleeing

Always try to use Hemo one time per target, do not use it more then that unless you just need a quick combo point

You can Premed > Recup if you prefer it but I tend to just rely on my Vanish/CoS/Evasion/CR/Sprint/Blind and Prep after breaking stealth. And use the free CPs generated by my team to spend on Recup.

I try to save Dance for when the target is getting low and I need to burst them, I generally try to go for a 5 CP KS prior to using Dance and almost always drop a Smoke Bomb on them when I do to prevent outside influences.

[olhakio]

thanks alot for the info on backstab!

and the multi vs sub question, is there anybody who could link a good spec to go if i want to go multi pvp.

[iamftwlol]

Muti - http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fcIfRsGzoMoZbhc:qRVkfb

Sub - http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fchbZbZfGfbdu0Rho:Mamksf

And for Sub if you choose not to use Hemo which I often do, you can switch the 3 points from there over to Energetic Recovery or Cheat Death. I find that choosing Energetic Recovery is best for 3s/5s because you will be flooded with a constant stream of CPs, and Cheat Death is best for BGs and 2s.

[Kaje123]

Probably a stupid

[olhakio]

thanks alot for the info!

Just another thing i was wondering, when you are playing multi when sould you use envenom and when eviscerate?

Also what are the best poisons? for multi and sub

Thanks!

[Deleted]

With Mutilate you should never use Eviscerate - Envenom is what you will use. For combat or Subt you will only use Eviscerate. As for poisons Mutilate Instant= MH - Deadly= OH and i beleive Deadly = Thrown. For Subt I use the same. For PvP; for Mutilate it really depends on your spec if you put points into the one that adds crippling automaticly or not, for Subt I use Wound= MH - Crippling= OH - Crippling = Thrown

[iamftwlol]

PvP - Mind Numbing MH - Deadly OH - I prefer Wound for thrown

PvE - Instant MH - Deadly OH - Deadly Thrown

For Sub PvP Mind Numbing MH - Instant OH - Wound Thrown

For Sub PvE, couldn't tell you because thats even more laughable then Sub PvP

As for use of Evis as Muti, there are times when it is actually worth using in PvP. Times when your DP is getting cleansed repeatedly for example. Or if you are on a low health target and you do not have 3+ DP doses on them and need a quick kill. For PvE, I use Evis as Muti whenever I do not have enough DP stacks on the target generally, or if the target will be dead before I can get my DP stacks up.

[Bruinn]

For mutilate and Shadowstep I'd put Mind-numbing on thrown.

For mutilate, go Instant MH/Deadly OH/Mind-numbing on thrown. Instant poison on your MH poison raises your damage too much to not put it there.

[Deleted]

MUT: pve: insta MH deadly OH deadly thrown
pvp: same but should go for crip on thrown
sub: pve: worthless imo
pvp: wound MH crip OH crip thrown (also mindnumbing on other 1.4OH )

[Deleted]

imo sub is gonna die when pvpers gear up with resi,so start playing the undying mutilate spec

[Deleted]

Well i dont see Subt dieing, I mean what would be the point of having the spec then? Assassination and Combat are the PvE specs since Subt is behind them both. So Subt should by default the PvP spec, imo.

[Deleted]

Imftwlol, I would not recommend your mutilate build for any rogue, but I'm interrested in why you like it.

The major flaw from my point of view is that you dont put any points in Elusivness. Blind, cloak of the shadows and vanish are three of our most important tools, and especially when you play with a healer and you need them over and over again in certain fights.

And also, I don't like that you skip Cut to the chase, just to top off Ruthlessness. In my opinion the 40 percent meleehaste gives you miles of more damage with the faster poison output then a 60 percent chance to gain one combopoint.

And on top of that, I think that Blackjack gives so little advantage and almost only against a full DPS team that it isn't worth spending points in.

---------- Post added 2010-12-23 at 07:50 AM ----------

PvP - Mind Numbing MH - Deadly OH - I prefer Wound for thrown

PvE - Instant MH - Deadly OH - Deadly Thrown

For Sub PvP Mind Numbing MH - Instant OH - Wound Thrown

For Sub PvE, couldn't tell you because thats even more laughable then Sub PvP

As for use of Evis as Muti, there are times when it is actually worth using in PvP. Times when your DP is getting cleansed repeatedly for example. Or if you are on a low health target and you do not have 3+ DP doses on them and need a quick kill. For PvE, I use Evis as Muti whenever I do not have enough DP stacks on the target generally, or if the target will be dead before I can get my DP stacks up.

I am sorry to pick at you, but most of your information is wrong.

PvP muti poisons: MH instant, OH deadly, Throwing own pickings.
Explanation: The damage output from Instant are overpowering the 10 percent nerf on healing and the damage coming from wound.

And you should never use eviscerate. And I mean never.
Explanation: Envenom with full reforged mastery (as all rouges should have, both pvp and pve) will do more damage with 3 combopoints than a 5p eviscerate. And on top of that envenom gives you the buff for poison output.

And no serious pvp healer use all their mana on despelling poisons. It costs to much mana.

---------- Post added 2010-12-23 at 08:02 AM ----------

And for further use of poisons, get yourself another offhand (ilvl not important) and macro your shiv to equip it. Only usable against casters.

PvP muti
MH: instant.
OH: deadly.
Throwing: crippeling.
Offhand 2: mind numbing.

[olhakio]

Mmembranee could you link a muti spec? You seem to know what you are talking about.

[Stealthbomb]

Membranee, its rogue not rouge and PvErs will reforge almost everything into hit rating to get hit cap.

[Deleted]

Sub is incredibly weak right now and all .

i cannot agree 'anymore'.

the damage is behind Mutilate, sadly, but mostly, because you have to put crippling on your weapon. (:<)
but for some arena comps, Battlegrounds or Duels against mages (<- or at least the chance to beat a bad one), sub is fun, and pretty fine.

but beware - you have to be behind your enemy most of the time... so if your latency sucks, or you hate to be so limited, go mutilate, since its an amazing specc too.

[krift]

wo wo wo wo, mult is the best rite now? that seems so unrealistic, i mean sub has so many more maneuvers and abilities that really help outsmart opponents and yah sure maybe damage could be weak but overall with good strategic moves i feel like it could really dominate, while mult has longs cd's, 1 vanish, and no shadowstep, plus no shadow dance for control

[cburja]

wo wo wo wo, mult is the best rite now? that seems so unrealistic, i mean sub has so many more maneuvers and abilities that really help outsmart opponents and yah sure maybe damage could be weak but overall with good strategic moves i feel like it could really dominate, while mult has longs cd's, 1 vanish, and no shadowstep, plus no shadow dance for control

Mult?

You be shitting..

[krift]

im not a great typer alrite?

[iamftwlol]

Imftwlol, I would not recommend your mutilate build for any rogue, but I'm interrested in why you like it.

The major flaw from my point of view is that you dont put any points in Elusivness. Blind, cloak of the shadows and vanish are three of our most important tools, and especially when you play with a healer and you need them over and over again in certain fights.

And also, I don't like that you skip Cut to the chase, just to top off Ruthlessness. In my opinion the 40 percent meleehaste gives you miles of more damage with the faster poison output then a 60 percent chance to gain one combopoint.

And on top of that, I think that Blackjack gives so little advantage and almost only against a full DPS team that it isn't worth spending points in.

---------- Post added 2010-12-23 at 07:50 AM ----------



I am sorry to pick at you, but most of your information is wrong.

PvP muti poisons: MH instant, OH deadly, Throwing own pickings.
Explanation: The damage output from Instant are overpowering the 10 percent nerf on healing and the damage coming from wound.

And you should never use eviscerate. And I mean never.
Explanation: Envenom with full reforged mastery (as all rouges should have, both pvp and pve) will do more damage with 3 combopoints than a 5p eviscerate. And on top of that envenom gives you the buff for poison output.

And no serious pvp healer use all their mana on despelling poisons. It costs to much mana.

---------- Post added 2010-12-23 at 08:02 AM ----------

And for further use of poisons, get yourself another offhand (ilvl not important) and macro your shiv to equip it. Only usable against casters.

PvP muti
MH: instant.
OH: deadly.
Throwing: crippeling.
Offhand 2: mind numbing.

^ This guy is an idiot, but he is right about one thing. Instant on MH is far superior to Mind Numbing. The only reason I even suggest Mind Numbing on MH is because it is my own personal preference, I pursue casters and rarely ever attack melee unless in BGs.

Normally I would not bother feeding a troll but just to clarify from my perspective so that none of you get confused by what he is saying against what everyone else is saying...

I do not take Elusiveness, nor do any other serious Muti PvP Rogue's I know, because in arenas fights generally do not last long enough for your CDs to come back up. If they do then generally someone is doing something wrong (Or very well?). Which is why Opportunity is the better choice there, because it maximizes your damage output on your target before you get peeled off or they run away.

Cut to the Chase is also useless in arenas and BGs because it requires that you be on the target 100% of the time just about, which is definitely not the case as a Muti Rogue. First of all, we do not have the energy to waste on S&D in the first place, as it is more important we use it for other things first such as Envenom, Recuperate, Rupture, stuns and Mutilate. The only time you are ever really going to be using S&D is when you have extra combo points after a kill and no one to redirect to and your health pool is full.

And his last little bit about making a Shiv macro to equip a second OH dagger with Mind Numbing on it, that is a terrible idea, it resets your swing timer and triggers your global twice, which is purely moronic.

Generally here is what you want for PvP as Muti...

MH: Instant
OH: Deadly
Thrown: Mind Numbing

There really is zero reason to vary from that, it is the best possible poison setup for every situation, unless of course you are like myself and prefer to target casters then throw Mind Numbing onto your MH. The only reason I do this though is because I do not like to waste energy to use FoK while I am fighting a caster because it is difficult enough to get in more then a few hits before they run away as is and you need that energy for big damage up front.

And of course, what I am saying here is not "The only way to do things" it is just what generally works the best which is why I do it this way, and which is also why I read it from various other sites and adapted it to my own personal playstyle, and also why I am here passing on what I know.

As for "Membranee" ... The guy is a troll, so if I were you I would double check anything you read from him before actually believing it.