I think Blizzard seems to think the players are pretty stupid in general

[Kryos]

When I saw the Blizzcon 2010 panels one thing started to annoy me.
For every major decision they made the reason ultimately was, that they thought that the players "won't get" or "will not understand" or "will not recognise" the great ideas they had in the first place.
And then they always made a version of the idea even a retarded kid would understand but completely lacks in finesse and background the old idea had.

I know, 12 million players, most are casual players that don't read lore or don't care about lore. But one of the things that made vanilla WoW so interesting even for new, casual players is the "mystery" of the big lore and events. I remember beeing overwheelmed with all the story and events that I encountered in the plaguelands when I reached level 50. The story of the families that suffered and what happened. It took me a very long time to understand all the storylines and details. Even when raiding in Molten Core there were many things that were unknown, strange and not fully explained. And that was GREAT. Burning Crusade showed its story faster and clearer and felt less mysterious. WotlK had nearly nothing that was not explained the moment you encountered it, hell even the final boss showed up everywhere and told you his plans.

I think Blizzard is too much influenced by the demands to make everything front-end show-it-all nothing-is-unknown. People are lazy and always want everything for free on a silver plate. But that takes away the excitement. You maybe want some examples about what I'm writing: Showing boss ability on the Map, removing the portal loginscreen to the deathwing screen because "players don't know about the Twilight Hammer Clan", removing the new races from the intro "to make it more clear", having bosses yelling what will defeate them (play beta, some really do it), having less secret texts to read (like all the cool books in vanilla) and so on.

Gimme back "the unknown", it makes the game more epic and less like a sandbox without anything strange and unusual happening. Do things you "don't get" at first but later you are baffled how everything was connected.

I hope you understand my point. English is not my native language.

[Imhullu]

Gimme back "the unknown", it makes the game more epic and less like a sandbox without anything strange and unusual happening. Do things you "don't get" at first but later you are baffled how everything was connected.

I agree, it does seem a lot like that. Also agree with the quoted part. That is always welcomed.

[Araxie]

I 100% agree. It seems like someone, not pointing fingers (*Cough* Activision *cough*), put the idea in Blizzards head that when they have this great and in depth Lore idea that maybe most players will not understand. So... they dumb it down. That is BAD.

[Vasti]

I agree, current wow story sucks compared to the old story. During vanilla you had lotsa mysterious and cool quests. Nowadays it all is simple or jsut retarded with a stupid ending

[Nikkaszal]

Showing boss ability on the Map

Anyone raiding (besides the people who wish to be carried without any effort on their part) already goes to read up on boss abilities and strategies before encountering something for the first time. Those in beta or PTR's who work it out for themselves by literally throwing themselves at a boss and then spending ages working out exactly what hit them, how often and for how much. The idea of showing a boss' abilities is to reduce the need to alt-tab to Wowhead, and save time when running into a fight blind to give you a small idea of what you'll run into.

removing the portal loginscreen to the deathwing screen because "players don't know about the Twilight Hammer Clan"

I don't get this... you advocate unfolding plotlines yet you're adverse to the login screen referencing a major plot point in this expansion? Don't you wanna "see it all for yourself in-game"?

removing the new races from the intro "to make it more clear"

Yeah, make it more clear that the expansion isn't about how Worgen and Goblins change the world, it's about how Deathwing comes and wrecks shit up. It's all about the physical destruction of Azeroth by the return of a malevolent Dragon Aspect, that's what the intro focuses on.

having less secret texts to read (like all the cool books in vanilla) and so on.

There's a whole ton of reading material in the game, both through quests and "readable" loot items. The entire face of the world is changing, and that means that it's not just new content tacked on for 80-85. The lowbie quests are being massively revamped, which means a HELL of a lot of new ingame text.

Gimme back "the unknown", it makes the game more epic and less like a sandbox without anything strange and unusual happening. Do things you "don't get" at first but later you are baffled how everything was connected.

You've obviously played for years. Vanilla WoW came complete with two full continents worth of fresh lore - with the previous RTS games as the skeleton they were able to flesh out an entire world's worth of storyline. You've had those years to experience the lore of WoW as well as how the game plays out. There's not really a lot for you that will be totally out of left field or hard to comprehend. That's not to say it's going to be bad storytelling - I've been browsing through a few lore items people have unearthed from the beta without spoiling too much for myself and I can see there's going to be a lot of stuff that blows me away. Even in WotlK - I've been a Hordie for years but had to faction change for a new guild. When I did the Frosthold quests in SP I was literally stunned about how it ended with the tie to WC3. There is still terrific storytelling in this game.

But what about new players? There'll be people who haven't played WC3, or never experienced all of Vanilla or TBC. Hell, there's likely to be people playing Cataclysm as their first experience of the game. After so long and with so much lore packed into a game, it's hard to make a sharp left turn without completely alienating those who haven't had the chance to follow things closely for years.

[Deleted]

having bosses yelling what will defeate them (play beta, some really do it)

A boss did that in legend of zelda: link's awakening as well

oh I do hope you don't plant bombs on me... Erm I mean, MUAHAHA! I have no weaknesses


which bosses actually yell that sort of stuff? and what do they yell?

it could just be to help testers, in TB's worgen starting zone, crowley yells
"now we show you a cinematic of you turning into a worgen, also, we skip forward to the present"

it's quite funny actually :P

[Taiki420]

Very well said, Nikkaszal. The only gripe I have is that there may not be as many hidden or secluded easter egg type areas as much anymore, but Blizz can always surprise us.

The game is becoming more polished and presentable as time goes on, the whole game feels more complete and finished than it ever has in previous expansions (I'm on beta) so to hear all these 'dumbing down' comments really confuses me.

[Swizzle]

I agree with Blizzard; I also think the players are stupid in general, even worse in trade.

[Deleted]

I agree with Blizzard; I also think the players are stupid in general, even worse in trade.

that's like saying /b/ is a perfect representation of the human race...

[Omgnumbers]

The majority of players are stupid...just like the majority of the world is fucking stupid... deal with it

[Taiki420]

Of course there are really bad things (the map features) but from the lore excitement point of view, I still like it.

How is this any different from alt-tabbing to wowhead or wowwiki? Plus we get LORE on the boss.. Are the people complaining high?

[Wildstaff]

that's like saying /b/ is a perfect representation of the human race...

while not perfect, it does provide a great example of how people act when given the option of "complete anonymity"

and Since i subscribe to the idea that MOST people are stupid, it wouldnt surprise me that blizz would think that of their players

[Talonus]

I agree with OP. When I started playing in Vanilla, I was purely new to Warcraft. But doing the quests, and having tons of fun while in the process, I began to noticed "hey this game has a story to it, I like it." Warcraft eventually grew onto me, and by the time WoTLK was due to come out I went and bought Warcraft 3. That really opened the game up to me even more.

Blizzard isn't Blizzard anymore. Yes people have silly questions, but none the less, they are questions in which they have that Blizzard perhaps overlooked, or gets a million times and still refuses to answer them because they don't want to. Fact remains, without players and fan, Warcraft and Blizzard exist no more. People continue to play in hopes of achieving something. Some people leave because the game is no more like it used to be. I for one am getting to that stage, but it's Blizzard's and the Players fault. Both parties are at fault and really don't understand how either side works. Maybe a mediator could be present to help?

RIP Vanilla WoW. How I miss ye.

[Swizzle]

that's like saying /b/ is a perfect representation of the human race...

I was trying to use a play on the word general which can mean two different things in this scenario. A) Affecting most people, or B) The channel in which people type by going to /1.

People in /1 are often idiotic, but trade chat isn't much better. I know, I know, spelling out a joke to someone it wooshed over kills it, but still, relax a bit brah.

[Aro]

Those that are experienced can ignore the boss abilities if they like. Those that aren't will think they come in handy.

Honestly, I've never been to a raid that hasn't required somebody spending time on WoW Wiki looking up the names for boss abilities. Apparently things becoming more convenient is the equivalent to "dumbing down the game".

Tolerating tedious bullshit isn't a skill and doesn't improve how well you play. You want to go to the raid and fight, not spend an hour explaining the fight.

[Comby]

I prefered the front page title of your post: I think Blizzard seems to think the players are pretty

That one was funnier.

Instaquest, click accept > read the damn thing. Coming from apperantly a "casual" raider and pvper with 2400 rating.

What I know about Cataclysm atmo is the extent of knowledge I'm bothering to learn about Cataclysm: Some dragonthing named deathwing has escaped somehow and fucked up the world. Played vanilla and bc aswell, and couldnt care less about the lore then either
Bring on the cataclysmic pvp.

[Elementium]

I can sense their dickishness as well.

They kinda act like bros. By bros I of course mean.. the way they responded to the chick asking about WoW females looks.. and they say (paraphrasing) "What catalog u want us to make girls look like? fatty monthly? LOLOLOL"

Not hard to say "well originally we were pretty set on our demographic being mostly male. So we have some sexy type armor sets. Also the horde armor is supposed to be very primitive and therefore somewhat revealing. As for the models in general, we base them off of what our general idea of good looking is for each race and what players will enjoy playing as."

Ta da. Non-dickish, honest answer!

But.. they're still Blizz so I love them..

[BagOfChips]

So people are casual if they don't obsess over lore? Scuse me?

[Nuke1096]

I dont blame them at all. Have you browsed the official forums at all? Plus listen to all the stupid questions they got asked at the panels.

When is xxx getting a new legendary derp???

That was asked at least 5 times.

[Taiki420]

I can sense their dickishness as well.

They kinda act like bros. By bros I of course mean.. the way they responded to the chick asking about WoW females looks.. and they say (paraphrasing) "What catalog u want us to make girls look like? fatty monthly? LOLOLOL"

Not hard to say "well originally we were pretty set on our demographic being mostly male. So we have some sexy type armor sets. Also the horde armor is supposed to be very primitive and therefore somewhat revealing. As for the models in general, we base them off of what our general idea of good looking is for each race and what players will enjoy playing as."

Ta da. Non-dickish, honest answer!

But.. they're still Blizz so I love them..

Well, that and the fact it's brought up a lot by female gamers, and the response they gave was far more entertaining than repeating the obvious :P

I dont blame them at all. Have you browsed the official forums at all? Plus listen to all the stupid questions they got asked at the panels.

When is xxx getting a new legendary derp???

That was asked at least 5 times.

While I agree it was brought up a bit excessively, if you don't ask it will go to someone else, and the first guy even got what he wanted.