What factors into Alliance losing in BGs more often than Horde?

[Bigslick]

You would be lucky if there are 100 contributing members from your battle group on that site. those stats are so broken due to no one providing details.

^^ This. Just checked for US-Vindication... If you look at just the last 20 AV's recorded there, it takes you back to May 23, over 5 months ago, with only 3 having been reported so far for October.

[rabbimojo]

Regarding Alliance and Horde BG experiences.

1) I've not noticed any difference in how the sides respond to "leadership". Just as many lone wolves/idiots on both sides.

2) There is a slight long-term pressure for people to go horde who are serious about PvP, since the culture of the game holds that Horde are better (see this thread for reference).
3) There has been considerably pressure for people to go alliance who are serious about PvP, since EMFH was considered OP until the recent patch dropped it to 3m.

4) Horde have BE/tauren racials, which as AOEs tend to be "accidentally powerful" in BGs.
and
5) At least in the BGs I've played in, Horde almost always start with a full team, whereas for some reason on Alliance I've seen a lot of BG matches starting with 2-4 alliance missing.

Tl;dr: The sides are quite similar, and with rated BGs I suspect you won't find a large statistical difference between the two factions. Far more important what the group does than what faction they rolled.

[Edit: Oh, and it seems like every time people actually post statistics from their armories, win-lose is actually close to 50% for most BGs. Funny how that is.]

[VincentWolf]

Was 50/50 win rate to me (as Alliance) at my most active times of farming BGs for Battlemaster. Some days more loses some days 90% wins in my times of playing at Cyclone Eu (autumn 2009) and Vindication (winter/spring 2010, had seriously as much as 90% winrate in WSG few days in a row while farming it, but I've screamed at ppl so hard, I think some of them still remember me).

[palliinzwarrior]

hmmmm i play alliance... and i think its pretty even when i pug bg's. all i can say is get a group of peeps together that pvp and do premades.. only way you can really just dominate even as horde. when i pug its about 50/50 sometimes more sometimes less when i get my pvp buddies together we usally win every bg. invest in a vent server and get peeps that are geared and know what they are doin pvp takes lots of practise to really feel like you are actully dominateing.

[Deleted]

Yay, a new thread to report moronic fanboys in. I'm watching you, so keep it civil and objective.

[ItachiZaku]

The reason they win a lot more in WSG is usually the simple fact that they normally have 2-3 healers and are able to succeed when both teams are turtled up as they try and return the 1st flag.

I think this is usually the main factor, the number of heals. I like to bitch and moan about being the only healer in a BG, the 2-4 healers usually being a lock and hunter. I enjoy being the one that won the BG for us and I get pissy when my team doesn't know how to peel off me. It feels that when I'm the only healer and we win, it is because the alliance do not have any heals. Or maybe just one and I spot him early and CC him as much as I possibly can.

On Whirlwind, or the new Whirlwind/Emberstorm merge, it has been a 60/40 horde ratio in my matches and that reflects a heals ratio advantage as well. Resto Shams and I (resto druid) flag return team smooshed Alliance this morning. Alliance had no heals.

---------- Post added 2010-10-29 at 12:01 PM ----------

4) Horde have BE/tauren racials, which as AOEs tend to be "accidentally powerful" in BGs.

I'm definitely guilty of saving those for node defense.

[critterkiller]

for EU id say stay out of Vindication bg grp as horde and join the cataclysm bg grp as horde, it rock in all bgs except av for some reason

[Deleted]

i win more then i lose and im alliance

[SweetLou570]

Having PvPed as both Horde and Alliance, on the same battlegroup, I have to say there is little or no difference between the win rates. Its mainly a psychological thing, people tend to forget wins and exaggerate losses, probably because the time investment is the same for both but the rewards are much lower for losing, making you angry.

My thoughts exactly.

That being said, I went through and looked at the winning percentages of the characters I have listed below in the signature. Overall, I have won 60.5% of the battlegrounds I've entered since statistics were kept for all to see, with the healing classes really helping carry that high percentage.

[Deleted]

I've only been playing end-game content since Ulduar was new, up to that point I'd just been leveling separate toons since vanilla, maybe 4 months out of each year.
One thing that has never really changed though is Alliance always losing to Horde in Battlegrounds. Now, I'm using the word 'Always' lightly. Clearly there are times when Alliance prevail, but they are few and far between.

I've PvP'd on two separate battlegroups, one as alliance and the other as Horde. Same Story. Horde win 85% (guess) of the Battles. The only differences I have been able to detect are that alliance are used to losing and therefore accept it easier and when someone decides to take charge in a BG and spout out strategies, Horde listen and alliance all dilly-dally around the map doing nothing that actually counts towards winning the game.

What do you guys think are the reasons for alliance losing so often? Is it really a case of Alliance being comprised of more children than Horde who are unable to listen and appreciate the importance of strategy?

I am absolutely biased towards horde and am Transferring all of my alliance toons higher than level 60 to Horde, so although I want to hear opinions from both sides, Im a little more interested in what hardcore alliance fans have to say for themselves.

On my realmpool horde is good at open PVP cause they are much more, but they also need to w8 15 min till they can join a BG adn even then they dont do much better than the alliance.

I played 10 rnd BGs in the last 10 days with my mage (horde) and pala (ally) on the same server, and i did win around 6-7 with each (6 with horde and 7 with ally).
Maybe you are in the wrong realmpool.

Also allies win nearly 80% of alterac under lvl 80 here.

[Deleted]

Having PvPed as both Horde and Alliance, on the same battlegroup, I have to say there is little or no difference between the win rates. Its mainly a psychological thing, people tend to forget wins and exaggerate losses, probably because the time investment is the same for both but the rewards are much lower for losing, making you angry.

My win rate for both is 50-60%, so either I am simultaneously so awesome I can single handedly win BGs for Alliance and so terrible I drag the Horde down or the win rate is about the same and my efforts are making a positive impact for both.

It's also the fact that when losing, there are often players leaving the BG prematurely so quite often you get to be the replacement player and will of course lose with them so even if Alliance wins 50%, you personally will still lose more because of this.

[insmek]

Seeing as you cannot possibly be in every battleground taking place in your battlegroup, it's impossible to get a truly solid picture of the true state of things. For example, I play on Reckoning US, and I was having such terrible luck in Alliance BGs that I faction-transferred my Hunter to get the shot at winning a couple. Yesterday, I saw a thread on the Wowhead forums from a Horde player on the same Battlegroup who stated in no uncertain terms that the Alliance won 80% of the BGs on Reckoning.

Random battlegrounds really are a luck-of-the-draw kind of thing.

[Viator]

Seeing as you cannot possibly be in every battleground taking place in your battlegroup, it's impossible to get a truly solid picture of the true state of things. For example, I play on Reckoning US, and I was having such terrible luck in Alliance BGs that I faction-transferred my Hunter to get the shot at winning a couple. Yesterday, I saw a thread on the Wowhead forums from a Horde player on the same Battlegroup who stated in no uncertain terms that the Alliance won 80% of the BGs on Reckoning.

Random battlegrounds really are a luck-of-the-draw kind of thing.

Exactly, same with me, Ive done countless Eye of the Storms on my human priest, think from the ~30 battles ive won 2. Some time later i transfer to horde following my friends, decided to go eye of the storm again thinking I can now win some more of them...out of about 10 Ive won 1

It must be me.....

[deadlok]

I've also noticed that horde usually have more healers in games then the alliance which can really make a BG.

[Mammoth]

On my battlegroup we seem to lose more often as Horde. Which then means people spend most of their time in the BG QQing about another loss rather than fighting. It seems that QQing about losing costs us more BG victories than anything else, because frankly us guys just trying to get on with it have to pause and tell you to stfu and leave the BG so we have someone that can be bothered to fight.

QQ doesn't solve it, playing better solves it. Play as a team and don't start from the assumption that you're going to lose.

---------- Post added 2010-10-29 at 03:42 PM ----------

I've also noticed that horde usually have more healers in games then the alliance which can really make a BG.

And I notice the opposite.

[fizikz]

mentality is part of it: sort of a self fulfilling prophecy on one end, and a psychological problem on the other...

let's say you have two teams. on one team, people have no confidence they can win. they start the game off poorly, and in light of their lack of confidence...do what? give up. "F it. might as well farm some HK's at our one eots base, my team/faction sucks anyways"

the other team starts off badly, but thinks "my team always pulls through at the end" and keeps trying all game long. how much of an effect does that have on the outcome? pretty huge, imo.


the other, psychological part I was talking about is if you think "I lose so many bgs" then you note every bg you lose and rarely see wins as wins, just "something I deserved" ...you have to keep in mind this is not pve, you aren't "supposed" to win by default - you're playing other people, where the ideal is 50/50 win/loss to keep everyone somewhat happy. yet if you're pessimistic, you realize only the 50% losses and the 50% wins just pass you by as "expected and deserved" and aren't really celebrated yet every loss feels like pulling teeth out with pliers.

apart from this, there's just the general alliance = humans = "least 'geeky' race" so all the 'casuals' play it.

[Koridian]

I've played a few different battle groups. From my experience the ratio seems to be 60/40 horde. The reason the Horde tend to be victorious is three fold. One, the horde generally come to the game with more healers. You can win a BG if you're out dmg'd, but you'll rarely win if you're out healed. Two, the horde tend to work together better than the alliance. Sometimes alliance seems more content fighting each other than the horde. Three, Alliance seems to quit more often and a lot quicker than the horde do. There have been numerous times in AB or AV or Eye I've heard alliance bitch and moan once they are down by a few pts - no exaggeration. Also, the overall number of loses appears to be skewed towards losing simply because about a 1/3 of the time ppl are qued into a "fail" BG right in the middle.

[DrgnDancer]

Not directly relevant, I realize that you're talking BGs rather than WG, but as a matter of comparison.... I play on three servers.

Thorium Brotherhood, US: I play as Alliance and we nearly never have WG. It's a once or twice a week if we're lucky thing. Horde nearly always has vastly larger forces and destroys us.

The Scryers, US: I play as Horde and it's exactly the opposite (Yes I managed to pick the wrong side on two completely different servers, go me). Horde nearly never has WG for most of the same reasons that Alliance nearly never does on TB.

Mannoroth, US: I play as Horde and it's extremely balanced. I don't know about a perfect 50/50 but it seems close. We win pretty often, but we lose just as often. Usually whoever brings the most people (which seems to differ a bit based on day and time) wins.

Now to bring this around to the topic at hand, I'm sure Battlegroups are similar. Some are Alliance dominant, some Horde dominant, and some quite well balanced. Also, to an extent, look at yourself and the people you are grouping with. I know that if I play on a toon with a PvP spec and gear I tend to do a lot better than when I bring one of my PvE only toons in for a holiday achievement or something. Especially in WSG with only ten people, one guy who either sucks or isn't geared/speced can make a huge difference.

[hoosierman5000]

Horde plays world of WARcraft.
Alliance plays world of Everquest.

When you pop into your bg, examen your teammates gear first. It tells all the story. My alliance bg's are littered with 6k gearscore players, but have 0 resilience. It's as if these players got lost on their way to ICC and ended up in my bg's. Plain and simple, Alliance tends to focus more on the PVE content of WoW and treats PVP as a sub game to check in on from time to time.

Where as horde hold pvp to be first and completely blow at PVE. I've been on horde pug ICC 25 mans that have failed on lootship. Meanwhile my alliance ICC pugs are smooth rolling all the way through deathbringer saurfang.

The only exception to this situation appears to be on the Nightfall battlegroup, and only because of the server Kel Thezaud alliance flood our random bg's with 5 man premade teams.

[Azahel]

On a Normal day on emberstorm it's not hard to see the alliance winning several times in a row, and the horde now and then.
I'd say we win 65 to 70% of the time, there were times I felt bad for the horde on some losses, but it also happened to me as alliance as well.
I think all this horde win more at bgs is alliance QQ and horde propaganda and doesn't make any sense at all.