Arenas - Word of Glory Healing - Very "Efficient" for Prot Paladin PVP

[minteK917]

I'm not going to argue that selfless healer is useless but using your 3 holy power eliminates any pressure you could have gotten going. Now it won't always be the case with Eternal glory, but you get my point.

But somehow this doesent affect prot according to the argument of this thread? Also the difference with Prot paladin and Prot warrior, is that warrior has more cc and its all undispellable, they can instantly close gaps. Prot paladin control is decent but you had to play a prot warrior to see its not even close it wouldnt work as good against most comps with a prot paladin, id say group healing makes up for the difference now?

If we can use blizzard last line of thinking they shared with us.

Ret paladin is an arm warrior that traded mobility for healing
Prot paladin is a prot warrior that traded mobility for healing

Its confirmed by both talent tree. So far the consensus in arena community is that prot is good, not op. Ret needs help.

[gookslammer]

But somehow this doesent affect prot according to the argument of this threat? Also the difference with Prot paladin and Prot warrior, is that warrior has more cc and its all undispellable, also they can instantly close gaps. Prot paladin control is decent but you had to play a prot warrior to see its not even close it wouldnt work as good against most comps with a prot paladin, id say group healing makes up for the difference now?

Like I said in an earlier post, the ramp up time for prot is significantly lower especially with a reliable way to snare your target. Ret's "burst" comes every 2 minutes with wings and possibly zealotry both of which can be dispelled / spellstolen whereas prot's burst can come every 15 seconds and is only helped with a Sacred Duty proc.
By the way, I have a prot warrior. They're not exact in terms of playstyle, but since the rage generation nerf, prot warrior doesn't look as viable as it was in S8.

[blahssat]

Ret gets +50% healing out of wog on Allies. I dont understand how you would heal more, specially when prot talent for the +10% as you quote only work on yourself?

Well a prot pala can generate 1 HP every 3 seconds if in melee range of any enemy. He gets +6% on WoG on an ally, and another multiplicative 6% AND 10% on top of that if he heals himself (which would be 23.596% at this point). He has a 30% chance that WoG won't consume his holy power. If he's in a pinch, he can pop divine plea, click off the buff (or use a macro) and 3 HP WoG, something like a nature's swiftness if you will. Also, depending on his subspec, his WoG has a +60% chance to crit on targets less than 35% HP and the paladin will heal himself too if he uses WoG on someone else, OR he can get 15% crit on WoG all the time plus a chance to produce HP when feared/stunned/immobilized. Finally, he can glyph WoG for yet another multiplicative bonus of 10% which buffs the total amount to 35.9556% on himself (On 16.6% on an ally)

There are lots of ways a prot can buff word of glory. A big part to it's strength seens to be the rapid generation of HP if you can get in melee range of something. So it comes down to kiting the nuts out of said paladin, or if it's really that difficult as a playerbase to do this, nerf HP generation in pvp while keeping it about the same in pve. Tanks take a lot of damage, so here's a theory. 3 things need to be done.

Nerf the cooldown of CS/HotR to 4.5 seconds. Also, stick these two things into any talents a tank would normally take.

Increase the damage of your Crusader strike and Hammer of the Righteous by 50%

When you lose half of your health (which may be healed) from taking damage by an enemy, you generate 1 holy power. This effect may not occur more than once every 9 seconds.

Granted, the last effect may need to working on the cooldown or mechanics, but from what I could tell, this will nerf prot pvp WoG while having little reprocussions with pve aside from a little more waiting for abilities to come off cooldown.

Any thoughts? Or am I waaaaaay off track here and everything I said should be ignored?

[Wow]

Anyone know if the shield daze glyph has been fixed for 4.03a? I mean the fact that you can't shapeshift, trinket, clos, master's call, freedom, divine shield, etc etc out of it.

[gookslammer]

Anyone know if the shield daze glyph has been fixed for 4.03a? I mean the fact that you can't shapeshift, trinket, clos, master's call, freedom, divine shield, etc etc out of it.

It is quite annoying when you're on the receiving end of it. But as a prot paladin, It's quite nice. I hope it does get fixed, pretty sure it's a bug.

[minteK917]

Like I said in an earlier post, the ramp up time for prot is significantly lower especially with a reliable way to snare your target. Ret's "burst" comes every 2 minutes with wings and possibly zealotry both of which can be dispelled / spellstolen whereas prot's burst can come every 15 seconds and is only helped with a Sacred Duty proc.
By the way, I have a prot warrior. They're not exact in terms of playstyle, but since the rage generation nerf, prot warrior doesn't look as viable as it was in S8.

Actually ret ramp up time is much faster, you have to faction in the procs for holy power. You literally surf on holy power as ret at most time. To the point where its a mess with procs (thats another discution) The only ramp up time is the usage of inquisition but its not recommended in pvp as its dispellable. The burst ret has at 85 actually come from guardian of the acient king. This is not dispellable, you also cannot kill or cc the pet. After the end of the duration, the pet unleash an attack depending on your stacks of the str buff. I had mind crit for up to 50-60k in pvp gear after they nerfed it (it was bugged critting for 200-400k lol)

[Billyzane]

I approve~

[minteK917]

Well a prot pala can generate 1 HP every 3 seconds if in melee range of any enemy. He gets +6% on WoG on an ally, and another multiplicative 6% AND 10% on top of that if he heals himself (which would be 23.596% at this point). He has a 30% chance that WoG won't consume his holy power. If he's in a pinch, he can pop divine plea, click off the buff (or use a macro) and 3 HP WoG, something like a nature's swiftness if you will. Also, depending on his subspec, his WoG has a +60% chance to crit on targets less than 35% HP and the paladin will heal himself too if he uses WoG on someone else, OR he can get 15% crit on WoG all the time plus a chance to produce HP when feared/stunned/immobilized. Finally, he can glyph WoG for yet another multiplicative bonus of 10% which buffs the total amount to 35.9556% on himself (On 16.6% on an ally)

There are lots of ways a prot can buff word of glory. A big part to it's strength seens to be the rapid generation of HP if you can get in melee range of something. So it comes down to kiting the nuts out of said paladin, or if it's really that difficult as a playerbase to do this, nerf HP generation in pvp while keeping it about the same in pve. Tanks take a lot of damage, so here's a theory. 3 things need to be done.

Nerf the cooldown of CS/HotR to 4.5 seconds. Also, stick these two things into any talents a tank would normally take.

Increase the damage of your Crusader strike and Hammer of the Righteous by 50%

When you lose half of your health (which may be healed) from taking damage by an enemy, you generate 1 holy power. This effect may not occur more than once every 9 seconds.

Granted, the last effect may need to working on the cooldown or mechanics, but from what I could tell, this will nerf prot pvp WoG while having little reprocussions with pve aside from a little more waiting for abilities to come off cooldown.

Any thoughts? Or am I waaaaaay off track here and everything I said should be ignored?

Every single spell you said could improve prot wog also affect ret wog. WoG for ret can only not reach the 10% on self by guarded by the light. Ret WoG is 50% stronger when used on a friend. There is no reason a prot paladin wog can heal an allie for more unless a tooltip been bugged since the addition of selfless healer. Holy power generation is barelly an issue for ret, every single of your damaging ability also have 40% chance to give 1 holy power and the mastery also gives free 3 holy power abilitys (recently bugged and need 1 holy power to work). Ret has problems, but its not holy power generation speed.

[gookslammer]

Actually ret ramp up time is much faster, you have to faction in the procs for holy power. You literally surf on holy power as ret at most time. To the point where its a mess with procs (thats another discution) The only ramp up time is the usage of inquisition but its not recommended in pvp as its dispellable. The burst ret has at 85 actually come from guardian of the acient king. This is not dispellable, you also cannot kill or cc the pet. After the end of the duration, the pet unleash an attack depending on your stacks of the str buff. I had mind crit for up to 50-60k in pvp gear after they nerfed it (it was bugged critting for 200-400k lol)

Really the only thing that generates holy power from divine purpose is Judgement and exorcism (which requires you to melee and only has a 20% chance to proc on top of the only 40% chance to get holy power from it). Counting on those 2 things for holy power doesn't seem reliable. The fact that ret mobility is terrible doesn't help with holy power generation either.
And as far as i'm aware, Guardian has a 5 minute CD for ret. I don't see that as a game changing cooldown for ret.

[Toby John Kenobi]

not sure how palas work, but from what i understand, vengance increases you dmg, when YOU get hit...

2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 with full prot palas?

I know i missed something, but i'm gonna go with this thought...

[minteK917]

Really the only thing that generates holy power from divine purpose is Judgement and exorcism (which requires you to melee and only has a 20% chance to proc on top of the only 40% chance to get holy power from it). Counting on those 2 things for holy power doesn't seem reliable. The fact that ret mobility is terrible doesn't help with holy power generation either.
And as far as i'm aware, Guardian has a 5 minute CD for ret. I don't see that as a game changing cooldown for ret.

Hammer of wrath, TV, inquisition and holy wrath are also part of divine purpose and can proc holy power. Guardian is game changing when it can give a final hit for near half someone hp. Ret mobility in a 3v3 is higher then prot mobility by a long shot? Ret on the beta (and tomorow!) Are able to cleanse any root and snare from themself, even hamstring. Even if ret is in dire problems, which would be exageration, prot is not out of line in arena at 85. Its decent but its no arm warrior or frost mage. The way to help ret is not by nerfing prot. But by fixing ret itself.

[Deleted]

Haven't done any PvP on beta at all so I might be way off, but... the reason Prot Warriors worked in WLK in my opinion is not because of their support / peels - they worked because of the wild burst running rampant through all of WLK PvP. Having multiple short stuns is VERY important when 1-2 globals can bring your partners from critical health back to full - but not nearly as useful with Cataclysm healthpools. Likewise, Prot Warriors' own damage wasn't great in terms of 'dps' - but you had several massive instant hits that could well bring people down with a bit of setup. Again, killing people in 2 globals isn't going to be possible in Cata (hopefully, anyway). Last but not least, many kills in WLK arena would come from a quick switch onto a person caught slightly out of position / without prehots on them etc - this made Prot specs more useful since due to their great survivability you could pretty much leave them alone and only worry about yourself and one more person as a healer; again, this is a trait that's rendered nigh useless in Cataclysm PvP.

[gookslammer]

Hammer of wrath, TV and holy wrath are also part of divine purpose and can proc holy power. Guardian is game changing when it can give a final hit for near half someone hp. Ret mobility in a 3v3 is higher then prot mobility by a long shot? Ret on the beta (and tomorow!) Are able to cleanse any root and snare from themself, even hamstring.

As I established before, the only time you get to use HoW is during wings. If you get a team without a offensive dispeller, well lucky you you'll have a grand ol' time, but most teams do have a dispeller and as soon as they see that massive sign that screams "DISPELL ME NOW" you'll get 1 HoW off.
Dispelling at the cost of 20% of your mana. Contrary to popular belief, snares aren't difficult to re-apply.

[minteK917]

As I established before, the only time you get to use HoW is during wings. If you get a team without a offensive dispeller, well lucky you you'll have a grand ol' time, but most teams do have a dispeller and as soon as they see that massive sign that screams "DISPELL ME NOW" you'll get 1 HoW off.
Dispelling at the cost of 20% of your mana. Contrary to popular belief, snares aren't difficult to re-apply.

You are just nip picking at this point. Ret has better group mobility it cannot be argued. LAOTL is also undispellable now making ret abysmal mobility a little better. Prot has been better at 2v2 and solo pvping then ret for most of wrath, cata didnt change it. In group ret has the edge. Both spec are super supceptible from dispelling.

[gookslammer]

You are just nip picking at this point. Ret has better group mobility it cannot be argued. LAOTL is also undispellable now making ret abysmal mobility a little better. Prot has been better at 2v2 and solo pvping then ret for most of wrath, cata didnt change it. In group ret has the edge. Both spec are super supceptible from dispelling.

The term is nitpicking.
Personally, I find a snare MUCH more reliable than a 45% speed increase for a measly amount of time.
Prot was terrible in 2s and so was ret, I don't know why you're even talking about 2s. Did you do arena at all during S7-S8? Prot was more represented in 3s than ret was, at higher ratings of course.

[towelliee]

Faced the same team..we won this time.

[Lumidar]

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30295
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=86667

both of those together is what made the Warlock heal alot.

that sounds more OP to me... healing yourself by doing your regular damaging skills.

[Deleted]

Idc im still gunna prot pvp but i dont do arena lol, i hate it. been doing prot pvp since 70 in tbc :P

[Psilar]

Multiple people in this thread mad a reference to vengeance and just ignoring the prot paladin. What about a prot/prot team. Paladin/Warrior?

Sounds fun.

[Vuagnon]

Dispelling at the cost of 20% of your mana. Contrary to popular belief, snares aren't difficult to re-apply.

Which is why I believe that the base mana cost for Cleanse should be decreased.