"Don't QQ" - A clarification on the blood tanking "nerfs"

[Foibles]

Paladins have a shield and a bloodsheild type ability (guarded by light). I can word, divine or flash myself for a heal greater than that of a dk's (4sec less duration but it doesnt matter since the shield goes down so fast). They also take alot less damage so the overheal you get by guarded of light is up with almost every heal.

Warriors are really bad now, they have like no heals.


Thanks for the video nye, gonna go give a 5man heroic a shot. Inspiring

WoG can only be used every 10.5 seconds at best. It's a good heal, but if it ends up being better than DS it will be toned down, plus it's a huge threat and damage loss to use.

It also doesn't really scale, not to mention it took a HUGE nerf from doing 60% more healing on yourself, to 10%.

[Chadwixx]

I was under the impression guarded by light proc'd off every heal taken. Just looked at it and it only proc's off word like you said.

They need to reword guarded by light to "any overhealing from word of glory".

[Foibles]

It mentions healing from WoG, then goes on to say that any overhealing grants a shield. Not that hard to get it.

[Varabently]

If DK´s can´t tank lvl 85 content, they are going to fix us, just chill and wait.

This this. Have a little faith folks.

[Chadwixx]

It mentions healing from WoG, then goes on to say that any overhealing grants a shield. Not that hard to get it.

I guess the period threw me for a loop. Usually a new sentence when using one of the those things

Does the "In addition" portion of crusade (in the ret tree) only pertain to kills made from the skills listed previously? Nope

[Foibles]

Possibly because it just mentions killing, while GBtL mentions one spell then about 4 words later it mentions overhealing.

How could you possibly think they would allow Paladins to get an absorb from ANY healing?

[Chadwixx]

Seperated by a period. It says any overhealing. Its basic english, they need to remove the "and" and apply a comma. Irrelevant either way.
Edit- Its wording will be revised, they have an "and" preceeded by a comma, must of been a canadian who wrote that tool tip

Btw, do you know if a healing paladins word would produce the shield on the pally tank?

I personally dont tank in raids, but i see this being a problem for those who do. Getting hit is part of the plan for a dk tank, but this maybe too much. Other classes have more margin of error in their blocking mechanics, better talents as well, like divine protection vs bone shield.

[Nyanmaru]

I personally dont tank in raids, but i see this being a problem for those who do. Getting hit is part of the plan for a dk tank, but this maybe too much. Other classes have more margin of error in their blocking mechanics, better talents as well, like divine protection vs bone shield.

I'd happily stay with Bone Shield and AMS and Vampiric Blood instead of getting Divine Protection...
Glyphed Divine Protection = AMS equivalent
But then they lose the Bone Shield-esque effect and still got nothing that's comparable to Vampiric Blood. And don't get me started about Will of the Necropolis...

What's the large error-quota with spamming DS? You can be any DK and spam DS and be fine. You can be a good DK and time your DS to do awesomesauce. And currently we got the strongest and best scaling abilites to counter incoming damage. The difference is that a DK needs half a brain to be awesome, while every other tank gets it as passive. And if you ask me, that's the reason I picked a DK in the first place.

[Ikkatsu]

My Blood Shield and my priests PW:S would like to have a word with you. Absorbs are an extension of your health pool. For as long as shields have been useful it has been this way. Every dmg reduce makes an absorb take less damage.
Want to check it yourself? Take any mob that hits hard enough to remove the full shield during it's uptime. If you don't find one, just head over to ICC and have a word with the first 2 trash mobs in there. Get PW:S and check how much damage it absorbs and how long it takes. Then do the same again but this time use IBF (+if available Bone Shield) and watch the damage it absorbs and how long it takes. Now get out there 'naked' get shielded and see how long the shield holds and how much damage it absorbs.
If this practical approach isn't your thing, go with the combat log. Just take a look at what it says how much damage is absorbed. If the hit would have been subtracted before mitigation there would be "absorbed BIG number" while if it's after mitigation you'd read "absorbed small number".

Why do you think a disc priests shield in PvP soacked as much attacks as it did? Because the damage was mitigated by resilience, If you'd get to pound on unmitigated shields, they'd be worthless compared to heals, since heals counter the mitigated damage...



I soloed AN, both instances, 4.0.3 (click for video) and 4.0.3a and in the latter my Bone Shield was about 10% less absorb as before while I took slightly more overall damage (no logs, numbers from recount).
The Blood Shield of a pre-mastery DK while soloing got reduced by 30% (10% -> 7%). So where it could take 1.25 hits before so uptime ~3-5s hit(absorbed)-dodge-hit(partially absorbed), it's now gone in 1 hit which it may possibly not even absorb completely. Blood Shield is really nice once you are not limited by the minimum heal anymore.

Are you 100% on this?

I dont bother recording everything i do to math it ll out (i know i should, i just dont have the time... all my theorycraftng is done when im at work), but just from basic experiencing and visually watching the Blood Shield Tracker, it certainly does appear that the Absorb takes a lot more damage per hit compared to if i was just taking the damage normally (with full armor/mitigation of course).

Maybe you're correct and it does scale from Mitigation... but it certainly isnt above 50% if that's the case.

[Zao]

I'm pretty sure he's right, since I did a test with BSh once to see if the mitigation works even when a hit is fully absorbed and therefore does not remove a stack.
I got the same results.

[Foibles]

Are you 100% on this?

I dont bother recording everything i do to math it ll out (i know i should, i just dont have the time... all my theorycraftng is done when im at work), but just from basic experiencing and visually watching the Blood Shield Tracker, it certainly does appear that the Absorb takes a lot more damage per hit compared to if i was just taking the damage normally (with full armor/mitigation of course).

Maybe you're correct and it does scale from Mitigation... but it certainly isnt above 50% if that's the case.

It does, otherwise Disc would be a useless spec. If the absorb counted before mitigation, every absorb would only last one hit.

[Ikkatsu]

Very Interesting...

When i was soloing Heroic Sethekk Halls, i would take only like 300-400 damage per hit normally but when i had Blood Shield up it was taking close to double that.

Maybe i was missing something though? Like a debuff or whatever?

[Conno]

All I know is out LK HC team just lost two of it's main tanks as we can't take the damage we used to.

[Shiira]

It's still possible to tank heroic lich king as a death knight, just a hell of a lot harder than before and not really practical unless you overgear it.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vbqgzi2976zkru6v/

[Neichus]

All I know is out LK HC team just lost two of it's main tanks as we can't take the damage we used to.

Yeah, again the problem is that Death Knight healing is reactive while the other tanks' mitigation is not. Since damage in WotLK has escalated to the point that reactive healing isn't possible (see GC's innumerable posts about the state of healing in WotLK) it puts DKs at a disadvantage with their new system. If Blizzard's balanced it properly at 85 then you should have time to heal yourself before you die, and so fixing the issue that DKs face now.

[Nyanmaru]

It's impossible to Tank a boss because you take 6% more physical damage?
How can you say this with a straight face when you still get like 40-50% overheal?

Looking at Shiira's log it's pretty interesting... So since the LK25HC hits you with an average of 37k that would translate to 2.2k more damage per hit, that's what makes it a lot harder with that amount of overheals?

Guess we'll have to cope with it for the last 1-2 LK IDs... I'd really give a big /whothefuckcares out there.
We all can agree on that it's a stupid change at this time in the game. It could have been done on December 7th just as good as it was done now. But meh, I could care less...

[Shiira]

Looking at Shiira's log it's pretty interesting... So since the LK25HC hits you with an average of 37k that would translate to 2.2k more damage per hit, that's what makes it a lot harder with that amount of overheals?

He was hitting harder than that with no stacks. That's an average of 37k with absorbs factored in. The actual nature of the damage was something along the lines of half the hits being fully absorbed or <20k partial absorbs, and the rest was 40k-65k hits. It's just absurdly spiky. I don't even want to think about what soul reapers would have been like.

And it's not 6% more damage taken, it's 6% less damage reduction. That translates to somewhere around 17% more damage taken depending on your bonus armour gear. That's a huge nerf, and the better your gear is the worse the nerf is.

[Chadwixx]

Guess we'll have to cope with it for the last 1-2 LK IDs....

Think this one through please.

You do realize on dec 7th your not magically lvl 85 outgearing every instance in the game dont you?

[Dalavita]

I want people to remember how armor in the game works.

I had 68% damage reduction unbuffed before from memory, and now I have 64%

That's going up from taking 32% of a bosses full melee swing to 36%, i.e roughly 12.5% more damage incoming in this case.

I can definitively see how this can negatively affect DK tanking at hLK. At higher percentages of DR, this nerf should get even worse as each individual percentage increases mean more in comparison to lower DR percentages.

[Leetbeartank]

Mmmm... Thanks. I've been trying to explain this to people, and no one ever gets it or they don't believe this.