Dishonour Points...

[Mempha]

Step 1: Build time machine
Step 2: Go back in time to vanilla WoW
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit!

[etsumii]

The fact that you rolled on a pvp server, yet didn't expect to be ganked is beyond me. It was pretty clear when you rolled on a pvp server that there would be some sort of player encountering throughout the lvling process.

[Flaks]

I love equal level world pvp.

Sadly, as a rogue, there's no real possibility of retaliation as I'll kill them once, expect them to respond only to realize OH WAIT I'M IN STEALTH.

TL;DR Stealth classes ruin pvp.

QQQQQQQQQQ

/sarcasm

[SobeBauxite]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Something being as it is does not make it intended. The fact that Blizzard has tried to fix the issue before (but failed) is a good indication that they also felt it was wrong and not working as intended. The fact that it still isn't fixed is as little evidence of it being intended as the glitch where you can get into areas of the map that are supposed to be inaccessible.

Again, you don't seem to understand the definition of PvP. Player versus player. The phenomenon we are discussing here is as much PvP as killing critters is PvE. Not at all.
Of course there should be killing going on, no one is arguing that. It just needs to make sense. Hell, I wouldn't even mind being ganked now and then by a level 80 as long as I knew he benefited from it, such as a certain kind of points. Perhaps Hellscream gives Horde players a quest to kill aspiring young heroes from the Alliance in order to prevent reinforcements? I don't know, I just know there could be a lot done with the current system, or lack thereof.

---------- Post added 2010-12-01 at 04:22 AM ----------



Of course it is easy to level, that doesn't make it gankless. Dungeons is something that happens in between periods of questing, and does in no way protect you from gankers once it's over. And quit the patronising tone, it doesn't suit you.

The patronizing tone doesn't really suit you either. And yes, you do have one.

Comparing this to being able to get into the emerald dream in old world before the shattering (for example, all of them are essentially the same) netted you a hefty ban. Ganking a lowbie doesn't get you anything but a warm feeling of satisfaction and glee (but maybe that's just me). It's not really a good example.

Here's something you may not know: dishonorable kills never applied to low level players, because people would grief with that system (get a raid of level 30 players to gang up on a level 60. If he fights back, he tanks his PVP rank). Blizzard hasn't fixed this issue, and they haven't tried. It's intended. You're wrong.

How is it not player vs. player? There's one player, and he's fighting another player. It may be like Mike Tyson punching a toddler, but unless you want to admit the toddler isn't a person it's still pvp. And it's a toddler who can ask his 3 Mike Tyson buddies to come over and beat the crap out of the first one. Or get on his own Mike Tyson and have a fair fight. It's still two people behind those characters.

And, for the record, giving us a reason to gank lowbies is probably the worst idea you could come up with. As it stands, me and a regular group of rogues run all over ERPshire killing any flagged alliance we can find. Give us a reason to be doing that, and you'd quadruple (at least) the number of players going out there to kill lowbies.

[leon219]

When the level range is close->fun, especially when you turn around and kill whoever decided to mess with you

when level gap is huge-> annoyance for the helpless lowbie and a realization by the ganker that they just wasted their (and their victim's) time for a second of false gratification

[Snowcrystal]

What happened to;
"Honor.. Never forsake it"..?
Would be nice if it applied to the players as well, and "not just the NPCs".

[Deleted]

The patronizing tone doesn't really suit you either. And yes, you do have one.

Comparing this to being able to get into the emerald dream in old world before the shattering (for example, all of them are essentially the same) netted you a hefty ban. Ganking a lowbie doesn't get you anything but a warm feeling of satisfaction and glee (but maybe that's just me). It's not really a good example.

Here's something you may not know: dishonorable kills never applied to low level players, because people would grief with that system (get a raid of level 30 players to gang up on a level 60. If he fights back, he tanks his PVP rank). Blizzard hasn't fixed this issue, and they haven't tried. It's intended. You're wrong.

How is it not player vs. player? There's one player, and he's fighting another player. It may be like Mike Tyson punching a toddler, but unless you want to admit the toddler isn't a person it's still pvp. And it's a toddler who can ask his 3 Mike Tyson buddies to come over and beat the crap out of the first one. Or get on his own Mike Tyson and have a fair fight. It's still two people behind those characters.

And, for the record, giving us a reason to gank lowbies is probably the worst idea you could come up with. As it stands, me and a regular group of rogues run all over ERPshire killing any flagged alliance we can find. Give us a reason to be doing that, and you'd quadruple (at least) the number of players going out there to kill lowbies.

There's a difference in raising your voice and being patronising. A raised voice with passionate arguments will always sound a bit aggravated or even patronising, especially when it needs to defend itself against a majority. What he did was using really irrelevant words to prove a point of where he'd like to be in the hierarchy between us, such as "honeybunny," etc. (I think that was the one).

Again you are only manipulating facts according to your opinion to make it fit. Why on Earth WOULD it have been intentional, when it goes against all major design Blizzard has done? They love defending the casual players and the "little man" and they do everything within their power to make sure the low level and high level experiences are set apart, by giving them different things to do, different areas to play in, different goals, and even different BGs.

The only reason the low level ganking still hasn't been addressed, I would say, it because of priorities. They have had too much other stuff needing fixing, so they've neglected this one.

Well, naturally there's a difference between technical terms and reality. PvP the word could be applied to two people using crude /emotes on each other in game, or in a drinking contests at one of the taverns. In practice, however, it implies that two or more people fight each other. Where, might I ask, do you find this in the case of one player in the vicinity of another clicking one button, that player dying before he knows what's going on, followed by a corpse run of cursing and gnawing teeth?

The point of that quest is that is gives meaning to the phenomenon, which in my eyes is a lot more valid then what we have today. Then I would know that there is a bounty on my head as a low level hero in a certain zone because the Horde presence there is great. It would then suddenly be integrated in the game play experience, forcing people to stay on their toes, but still not grief anyone as they all know the Horde is on the hunt, and someone benefited from his death. As of now, it is the effect of a purely mechanical thing, and has nothing what so ever to do with PvP, WoW game play, immersion, challenge, etc. Just as killing Onyxia with one button isn't all right, and just like running around killing critters is not PvE. It has no game play value, and it isn't contributing to either side. A low level player should not have to suffer because a high level player who runs by happens to be bored, seeking little kicks in his surroundings . It isn't PvP and it isn't fun.

Also, the quest was merely an example--I'm sure a hundred better solutions could be found. Point I was making with that specific example is that I don't necessarily mind the killing, as long as it has got a point, a meaning, a purpose, a reward for one of the two players involved. Then it's a mechanic. Now it's a defect.

[GrieverXIII]

Dishonor points would make sense if Blizzard still knew what World PvP was, because at the moment they make monumental efforts to eradicate it from PvP servers, wich makes no sense whatsoever but eh...

As far as ganking lowbies goes...its part of the contract when you roll on a PvP server, simple as that, most people at max level don't bother anyway...or get out of major towns for that matter, so its not a major issue anymore.

As far as i'm concerned, i don't gank lowbies... except Paladins, Death Knights, and recently added to the list, Mages. Don't roll the flavor of the month i'll leave you alone simple as that. Thats how i roll, get mad about it.

[Lucky_]

I'm just wondering, do you even realise in your haste to condemn anyone not agreeing with you that we, who advocate you consider a PvE server in fact do understand your needs. You described them very well here: you want a meaningful world PvP experience, with people standing a chance against each other, and not being attacked when they're not ready for it.

Which is what PvE server setup is all about. When you're ready for world PvP, you set up a PvP flag on yourself, and become a valid target. Both participants have to agree to world PvP on a PvE server for it to happen. This is exactly what you're advocating here, and no, I'm not "putting words in your mouth" - this is exactly what your numerous posts say.

PvP on a PvP server is NOT FAIR BY DESIGN. Read the PvP server rules - they are outlined when you log on. They tell you in no uncertain terms that any, and all kinds of ganking is working as intended, provided no cheating against game rules was involved.

Same was outlined in a myriad of blue posts on the same issue. PvP server world PvP is NOT DESIGNED WITH FAIRNESS IN MIND. Not any more then design of rogue class in world PvP is. It's designed for people who liked the chaotic style of completely uncontrollable world PvP outside starting zones. You clearly do not like it, you expressed this in almost every post in this thread. Therefore, I will go with my original suggestion: you should roll on a PvE server because it fits far more of the needs you express then PvP server does.

Yes, it's really that simple. No, we're not putting words in your mouth - you are the one saying these things, and then refusing to listen to reasonable conclusions drawn from them by other people.

Essentially, your argument can be summed up in a following sentence: "PvP server rules don't fit my tastes, and I don't want to roll on PvE server, so rules on PvP servers should be changed to be closer to PvE server rules to better suit my tastes".