[Resto] Druid Guide - 5.0+

[Deleted]

To get the extra tick at 3043 you also need the +5% raid haste buff, so if your testing without that buff you wont see any difference by dropping down to 2000.

[noladrew]

Derp, im retarded LOL... GG 5% raid buff. Its definitely time to get some sleep.

[Maxvla]

Don't worry about it. I ALWAYS think I get an extra WG tick from raid buff and even though I've made the mistake dozens of times I still keep making it.

On another front.. Glyph of Regrowth:

In all of the few parses my guild has posted I'm registering 80% crit almost on the dot every fight. I have been fairly unlucky with gear upgrades, half of which seem to be of the crit variety meaning I have 1100 crit rating I can't get rid of, but on the whole the piece is better than what it replaced. I have 9.84% crit unbuffed on character pane.

On one of my parses I cast Regrowth 30 times. 6 hits 24 crits with 93 ticks (a few extra from heroism giving a 4th tick, perhaps?) of the weak hot. The strength of my hits was 41,059 and crits 88,926 meaning I missed out on 6 x 47,867 healing or 287,202 healing. My average tick value (counting overheal) was 3240. 3240 x 93 = 301,320 healing. My living seeds hit for 28,376 each meaning I lost 170,256 healing on 6 non crits.

The grand total for glyphed regrowth counting living seed would be about 30 x 88,000 + 30 x 28,376 = 3,491,220.
The grand total for non-glyphed regrowth counting living seed and hot was 3,381,460.

Glyphed RG represents a 3.14% increase in raw healing with my gear at the time of that parse (~372 ilevel).

Worth noting is overheal in total with glyph could be higher on this parse. My ticks overhealed at a 13.6% rate. Seed overhealed at a 7.1% rate. There's no way to know if 6 more seeds would have increased overheal percentage significantly. Seed overheal was 48,352. Tick overheal was 40,979. Increasing to 30 seeds would have been 60,440 overheal. My 6 non crits were 0% overheal, my 24 crits were 4.3% overheal. Total overhealing from 24 crits was approximately 91,771. Total overheal for 30 crits would have been 114,714.

Looking at the overhealing numbers the gain from seeds is countered by the lack of hot overheal so largely a wash.

[Ashrr]

Yes, from a sheer numbers point of view, Glyphed Regrowth wins out so I've been using it. However, thinking about our Elegon kill last night, I should have probably gone without the glyph. I was on soaker healing duty and basically had to do RG -> RJ -> SM to get them above 80%. Had I gone unglyphed, I could have combo'd the RG into an SM for quick single target burst healing which works out much better when you must heal someone up asap.

Sometimes I get a bit too engrossed in numbers and forget convenience.

[Maxvla]

I agree. Despite showing a 3% gain from glyphed RG I will likely keep it unglyphed so that I have the ability to SM a RG, something that can't be expressed mathematically.

[Deleted]

Yes, from a sheer numbers point of view, Glyphed Regrowth wins out so I've been using it. However, thinking about our Elegon kill last night, I should have probably gone without the glyph. I was on soaker healing duty and basically had to do RG -> RJ -> SM to get them above 80%. Had I gone unglyphed, I could have combo'd the RG into an SM for quick single target burst healing which works out much better when you must heal someone up asap.

Sometimes I get a bit too engrossed in numbers and forget convenience.

Indeed. Even though I like the RG glyph in some fights, stuff like Will of the Emperor heroic just requires you to not glyph it. Rejuving someone who doesn't actually need a rejuv will kill your mana, when you can just unglyph RG and get the SM's mostly off clearcast procs.

I don't honestly like to think the glyph of RG numbers wise, you're better off just thinking whether you can take use of the RG hot in a fight or not, and go based off of that. Numbers are nice, but for such an increase (which has a lot of potency to differ depending on crit % and rng) choosing to spec for it on all the fights isn't what you should do, in my opinion of course.

[Ashrr]

Number wise nourish is no longer mana efficient. The amount of hpm it used to give was pretty good. It was good mostly due to our mana regening almost as fast as you could cast it. Now, it's not the case.

Personally, I've tried to use nourish. When mana was a problem right at the start I tried to fill with it but it just didn't do any healing, and I glyphed it and always used it over over hots thinking maybe it was still viable in a bad gear type of situation. I pretty much never use it now and dropped the glyph.

You just have to consider the mana you are using for it and the healing you are getting out of it vs. other spells. It's still the least amount of mana, but if you're going to get triple the healing from a spell double the mana it's not the best choice.

Just re-read this. Out of curiosity, which spell are you comparing it to?

I'm planning out my spell usage for WotE 10 HC which is a 13 minute long fight. I need to manage my mana well but the raid group is too spread out for shrooms. As such, I've been doing a bit of basic testing and Nourish is almost mana neutral for me again in my current gear. The heal is of course, nothing to write home about but I'm wondering if it has its place... somewhere.

From what I can tell, it may have better HPM than a Healing Touch if there's a HoT on the target and around the same (maybe slightly worse) without.

3x Nourish on a Target with a HoT (at 26k healing per cast) is 78k healing for 18360 mana.
3x Nourish on a Target without a HoT (at 22k healing per cast) is 66k healing for 18360 mana.
1x Healing Touch is 66k healing for 17340 mana.

[Deleted]

This is brilliant! After getting back onto my druid, I was confused why my Nourish was doing so teribly. I'll teach myself not to spam it when the tanks health is dropping - Thanks!

(P.S: I've never been a fan of UI/Raid-frame add-ons, but Vuhdo is brilliant. I don't know how I managed without it before discovering it in this thread!)

[Deleted]

Just re-read this. Out of curiosity, which spell are you comparing it to?

I'm planning out my spell usage for WotE 10 HC which is a 13 minute long fight. I need to manage my mana well but the raid group is too spread out for shrooms. As such, I've been doing a bit of basic testing and Nourish is almost mana neutral for me again in my current gear. The heal is of course, nothing to write home about but I'm wondering if it has its place... somewhere.

From what I can tell, it may have better HPM than a Healing Touch if there's a HoT on the target and around the same (maybe slightly worse) without.

3x Nourish on a Target with a HoT (at 26k healing per cast) is 78k healing for 18360 mana.
3x Nourish on a Target without a HoT (at 22k healing per cast) is 66k healing for 18360 mana.
1x Healing Touch is 66k healing for 17340 mana.

I really agree on this to be honest, nourish is pretty bad and Healing Touch is pretty much in the same place as well.

For WotE 10 HC though you really want to have Soul of the Forest. I wasn't in on my guild's kill but did some progress on it and SotF is really a king on that fight. Avoid casting any extra spells than you need to, keep SM and WG on cooldown.

[Myrrar]

With boomkin gear on so I didn't have to wait 10 days for nourish to crit:

HT:
17340 mana
60184 healing
120368 crit

Nourish:
6120 mana
19871 healing
39742 crit
+hot
23325 healing
46491 crit

Regrowth:
17820 mana
+hot
31016 + 6207 = 37223 healing
62032 + 12414 = 74446 crit


Mana wise, for every 1 HT you do you get 2.8 Nourish.
Mana wise, for every 1 RG you do you get 2.9 Nourish.
Mana wise, for every 1 RG you do you get 1.03 HT.


So, using those numbers:

For 17820 mana non-crit:
HT - 61990
RG - 37223
Nourish - 57626
Nourish+hot - 67642

For 17820 mana crit:
HT - 123979
RG - 74446
Nourish - 115251
Nourish+hot - 134824

RG(still top if you do use the glyph) is the best due to it always critting. When I don't use the glyph(in resto gear with as little crit as possible) it still almost always crits. HT is better than nourish with no hot and less than nourish + hot. HT you get that in 2.5 seconds instead of 7.5 seconds. There is almost no reason to use nourish anymore due to low hpm considering cast time. Even HT is extremely weak now but if you are mindlessly filling HT will still be better. Nourish barely heals more in 3x the time.

If we were healing Dreamwalker while being extremely mana pressed with no buffs and just had to sit there spamming trying to be as efficient as possible filling with nourish would be better. Since that's not how encounters work and how tanks take dmg, it's not efficient at all. The ONLY time using a spell that's only 20k healing, no matter how little the mana is, is if you are seriously sitting there doing nothing.

I've gone to filling with RG(being careful not to spam due to it's shorter casttime and considering it will almost always crit while looking at potential overheal), using HT with NS, and using HT between spells on a tank or someone getting slapped hard. This is less damaging on my mana and at least to me seems to keep my targets more stable. I just can't find a downtime where I find it better to spam nourish them to 100% than just wait and use one HT or RG unless I'm just desperately trying to snip heals from our other healers.

Something to consider, if HT would be better to split up in 3 and use on 3 different targets, Nourish will be better. But, people would literally have to be taking no damage. Even on mana intense fights, you are locking yourself into only healing people hit by WG since you won't be RJing often. That's not good either(worse for 25s obviously). On fights like HM WotE(can't talk from a 10m pov) I'd only say nourish is useful if it really is/close to mana neutral. If it's not, I'd still consider other spells. It's possible we just don't have the gear right now for nourish to work as intended. It will be interesting to see how it evolves.

When I quit using Nourish I felt like I was in a much better place, but I also had more gear and doing farm content and blah blah. Too bad LFR doesn't come out the same week as raids so testing in a raid environment without trying to test during progression was possible. I'll mess around with it this week though.

[Ashrr]

I don't really use the spell all that much (close to never post 90) but then I watched this video and noticed the amount of Rejuvenations he had going out -http://youtube.com/watch?v=HdjHN2Yy5dA&feature=plcp

That got me wondering whether a HoT boosted Nourish was ever worth it since he had so many targets to work with.

[Deleted]

Does anyone know what will push out more dps with HotW as resto post nerf, cat form or spamming Wrath/MF? In a scenario where you can use the entire duration without healing at all, with BL/hero/TW. (Whatever you prefer to call it )

[Deleted]

wrath/mf without a doubt

[jordanthug]

Was rejuv always 9.6k mana? Could have sworn it was 19.6k at one point...

[Deleted]

Some testing i did last night (wild mark on)

Sp : 20675
Mastery 21%
healing touch : 72k to 73k
healing touch Crit 150k
rejuv : 12407(no harmony activated)-15012(harmony up)
Lifebloom: 5428 (no harmony activated)-6566(harmony up)

Decreasing spellpower increasing mastery
Spellpower 19994 (-681 spellpower) (intellect is 14852)
Mastery : 23%
healing touch : 69k to 70k
healing touch Crit 146-148k
rejuv : 12138(no harmony activated)-14930(harmony up)
Lifebloom: 5311 (no harmony activated)-6532(harmony up)

rejuv healing is affected by 39.2 sp is added according to tooltip
healing touch healing is affected 186% of sp is added according to tooltip

Questions :
Can someone analyse the connection in 14852 intellect and spellpower of 19994
in comparison to mastery . Increasing mastery by 2% could not cover the loss of 681 spellpower but how is spellpower actually applying to spells . Is the application correct?

[Old]

Here is how mastery and spellpower works, taking Rejuvenation for example.

=[BASE]*(1.1+[MASTERY RATING]/48000)+([SPELLPOWER])*0.392*(1.1+[MASTERY RATING]/48000)

Technically you could factor mastery but it emphasize the 2 part of any spells (base and spell power). It shows you that with 0 spell power you still heal for something and mastery applies.

As for intellect and spellpower, it's pretty easy:
spell power = intellect + weapon sp - 10

Yes for some reasons there is 10 spell power that goes away, somewhere. Then obviously you can apply all the buffs.

Just gonna quote myself from the other post:

I was trying to figure out what to put in yellow socket and decided to do some math on int vs mastery gems. Most important thing to keep in mind is that it's not a simple int vs mastery topic, because you will always get intellect on your gear and it's a primary vs secondary stat topic, therefore it matters only in your gems choice.

When I swapped my int+mastery gem into a pure mastery I noticed my Rejuv and WG were healing for +4 so I wondered. Talked a guildmate into it and we double checked with raid buffs, made sure pvp power (yes I have pvp bracers) was disabled and noticed that he was losing out on healing while I was gaining, for some reasons.

We made the spreadsheet for Rejuv and WG. The purpose was to see what was giving the most if you had a free gem socket, aka the belt buckle one, and we managed to understand that:
- It's a relation between spellpower and mastery.
- The higher your current mastery is, the higher your spell power needs to be for mastery to become better than intellect.
- It is possible to calculate a value for one of the 2 variables, given the other variable. But we decided to go for a fixed mastery amount.
- I'm very close to the breakpoint myself mainly because I have strong gear and crap weapon.
- Bottom line it means that getting a good weapon allows you to largely get over that cap..ish-relation.
- Although it's important to note that these results are ignoring our +healing CDs that could lessen the effect. But without too much maths, I don't think it will impact the overall results.

Keep in mind it's a 1:2 ratio for the gems (160int vs 320mastery). Also the healing gained is almost insignificant, so it's not much of big matter.
For example :
- Right now it seems that I'm just on the 1:2 ratio. I gain around 2-3 healing for total amount that Rejuv is healing (not for each tick). I have 25341 sp and 7153 mastery, raidbuffed.
- If I get the healing mace from Will of the Emperor HC, I'll gain around 8 healing on each tick of Rejuvenation for total of 40 healing increase. Pretty worthless...but still better
- We're not specced into Heart of the Wild.

I got good upgrades recently, including WoE mace. If I had to remove my belt 320 spirit gem and choose between 320 mastery or 160 intellect. Right now I would get +9 healing for each tick of Rejuv for a total of 45 total healing bonus (5 ticks) by choosing 320 mastery instead of 160 int. This is roughly a 10% gain. Therefore in my case, 2 mastery > 1 intellect.

You can obviously expand it to 80int+160mastery vs 160int in red socket as well as 80int+160mastery vs 320mastery in yellow.

[Deleted]

Was rejuv always 9.6k mana? Could have sworn it was 19.6k at one point...

19.6k is higher than Healing Touch (at around 17k, IIRC) so that sounds way off the board.

And as for Nourish - while I don't have the math to back me up, I have the experience and yeah, it is balls. But it's pretty much mana neutral and for non-essential healing, it does it's job.

[Maxvla]

Been healing quite a lot with mushrooms lately. While they aren't so great at first glance, they are excellent to use rotationally during aoe damage in combination with wild growth and the ground hot portion of swiftmend. During the cooldowns for SM and WG you can either blow a ton of mana on rejuvs or you can plant shrooms and explode them for 6k mana that heal for the same as a few rejuvs. The results don't look impressive because it only heals for a few % of each person's health, but if you do the numbers it's really not bad. In addition it helps keep your mastery active when mana is really tight since the activation is so cheap. Tonight in fights that favored shrooms they tended to be around 8-10% of my healing, which is much more than I expected. They are here to stay on my action bar now.

[Keiyra]

Yeah, although i really disliked shrooms numbers for 10 man at the start of MoP, I decided to sort of use them in place of nourish. In the sense that when there are slower periods of healing (between SM and WG CD's), i'll drop shrooms instead of tossing a nourish on the tank. Been getting around 4-7% healing from them so far in 10 man raids. (10-15% in lfr)

Also shrooms really come in handy on say Vizer in Heart of Fear, Attenuation rings are predictable so you can drop em before hand and then pop the shrooms while running around. Same goes for the other platform ability, using the shrooms to help with the aoe healing while the raid is under the shields.

[Myrrar]

The more gear you get the better shrooms will be which is probably why they haven't buffed them when they were clearly undervalued compared to anything else we, or any other class have now. Though, when we have better gear we have more mana and we can replace shrooms with a stronger spell which will do significantly more healing(outside of gimmicky phases ofc).

Now we have to wait and see if they are still going to buff them, how strong they'll be by the end of the tier, or if they change their stance on them being rotational. I'm not sure why they give us a new spell and then basically tell everyone they don't want it to be a spell we normally use and then make it so weak when we are missing so much from our healing arsenal. Shrooms being stronger could really help us find a niche we're lacking.