| Wikileaks | Judge orders Julian Assange extradition

[Deleted]

Dunno whether the raping part is true, but if its not, than he shudnt get arrested

To quote an associate lawyer in Stockholm on the whole issue: 'There is no conspiracy. It is a matter of fairness. We're not at a stage yet where Mr. Assange is being prosecuted. We are at the stage where his actions are being investigated by police and it is necessary for him to come to Sweden to tell police his story.'

Also under the European arrest warrant scheme, a fast-track extradition procedure between EU members, he will have to argue there is a legal bar to extradition. The reason why is because there is only one 'bar' that may apply to him and that is 'extraneous considerations', such as that he will be prosecuted or prejudice at trial due to race, religion or political opinions. And extradition has to occur within 90 days of arrest or 10 days if he consents to surrender. If the US were to file a request for extradition to the US, the British Home Secretary could order one set of proceedings to be deferred until the other was finished. But once the court has ordered the extradition, the US can do nothing, even if Assange appealed and stayed in England.

[Catta]

One of the biggest issues is his releasing of military information, that would normally have been classified. It's some pretty bad stuff. There's a damn good reason why most military reports aren't brought into the public eye, no matter the country they're from, and he did that. Another big problem, at least for the states, is releasing of statements from our government officials speaking their mind about other countries' officials. This is incredibly damning information for the US, especially when we need foreign policy to going very smoothly after the whole Iraq debacle. There's a lot of stuff that happens behind closed doors that people generally don't want known, and he brought it to light.

Imagine if somebody released a tape recording of you talking about how shitty and lazy your boss is at work during a time crunch where you need a lot of work done in a short while. That's grounds for getting fired, even if you only sort of said those things out of frustration. Put into the scope of an entire country, you can fairly easily see how damning this website is for the US.

Now about him being tried...I really do think it's a setup. I think it was also the wrong move, because instead of this possibly dying down over time its only going to get worse.

if a large quantity of said workers says the same thing, the boss may be lazy and shitty...
The iraq affair needed to go smoothly should not be a concern... because itself being a flawed premise SHOULD be questioned by the rest of the world... not swept under the rug... american soldiers die yes... but so does iraqi and afghans...

Bush went into Iraq cuz of Bin Ladens attack... and that he was supported by Saddam... noone talks about Bin Laden actually being Saudi or Saddam having been brought to power partly by US help...

[Art3x]

Can't believe they arrested him for doing NOTHING illegal. He's a journalist reporting the truth, he is a messenger reporting the horrible crimes of the government and now they want to turn it around and say he's the one who's putting lives in danger? While they massacre innocent lives? The world is TWISTED!

Your post and your sig seem to contradict one another, maybe it's just me. /shrug

[Deleted]

Wikileaks is a journalist site...

If it is journalism then I am a poet laureate.

All they are doing is posting access to files. But most of what you said, I sort of agreed with :P

[Catta]

Wikileaks is a journalist site working with TRUTH, and don't bend the truth to get readers. They get secret information, a lot about USA, and leak it out. They prove how corrupt and stupid gouverments are.

Ofc USA tries to paint him up as a terrorist. That's what they do. And you believe in it. If you read up, you'll see USA "made up" and have abused the word "Terrorist". In fact, it's USAs gouverment itself who's terrorists.

You, sir, are right...

terrorist incites terror and fear... which is exactly what the US government does...

they are afraid of being a afraid... phobiphobia XD

[Deleted]

The Lawyer is prolly hired by hte US!! No doubt!

[rabbimojo]

If it is journalism then I am a poet laureate.

All they are doing is posting access to files. But most of what you said, I sort of agreed with :P

Well, what does a journalist, when whistleblowing, do after posting the flat factual information? Seems everything after that is editorializing, and opens the reporting up to bias. I think it's fine to release the documents without any window dressing.

[Easo]

He was accused of raping, that means his actions should be investigated. Everyone else would be, and it doesnt matter what he did with wikileaks, since wikileaks wont be stopped by that.

[Badpaladin]

if a large quantity of said workers says the same thing, the boss may be lazy and shitty...
The iraq affair needed to go smoothly should not be a concern... because itself being a flawed premise SHOULD be questioned by the rest of the world... not swept under the rug... american soldiers die yes... but so does iraqi and afghans...

Bush went into Iraq cuz of Bin Ladens attack... and that he was supported by Saddam... noone talks about Bin Laden actually being Saudi or Saddam having been brought to power partly by US help...

I'm of the opinion that the "Rally around the flag" effect was used(not the good kind of used) as a catalyst for a plan that was already going to take shape at one point or another. Saddam actually fought AL'Queda and kept them out of his country, so I don't really think they two are related other than one being used as an excuse for the other.

Now releasing these documents has a good and bad effect. The good is the information is out there for people to read themselves, but the bad part is so few people are capable of reasonable thought that they immediately jump on some kind of bandwagon without even bothering to really investigate all the information at hand. My point is that what he may have done was extreme journalism and probably not the best thing in the world right now, when you consider the state of foreign policy involving the US. That's not justification for him getting arrested and tried for some rape accusation, but he's not exactly some world peace hero for doing this either.

Another analogy I'm going to use is imagine that somebody had records of all the things you do in the privacy of your own home(possibly marital or family disputes, internet history, grades in school, etc) and released them for the whole neighborhood to check out. It's obviously far more complex than this, but it's the same general concept.

[rabbimojo]

[...]That's not justification for him getting arrested and tried for some rape accusation, but he's not exactly some world peace hero for doing this either.

I suppose that depends on what you feel are the dominant failures in the modern global society right now. As you point out, many people won't investigate properly and will instead react and fabricate, much as with the "Climategate" release. However, part of the underlying cause for that, I feel, is because people are very rarely presented with dissenting views. What Assange and WL are doing here seems, to me, to be saying "Most everyone has an opinion on their/others' government(s). Here's some data, so maybe you can support those opinions."

What the ultimate results of this leak will be, I'm not sure. I'm generally adamantly against the kind of opinions expressed earlier in this thread saying that if his actions cause even a single life to be lost, he should be executed or something. People are astoundingly bad at weighing the value of a life.

To illustrate: An amusing statistic/argument I read on slashdot recently (I can't back it up, so take it with a grain of salt), calculated the deaths and injuries related to airplane hijacking, historically. Using that, they calculate the rate of deaths/year due to hijacking. It averages out to something like, 100, 300, 600/year? I forget. Anyways, they then point out that we're spending many billions of dollars on this TSA security song-and-dance in the US. The amusing part: More farmers die each year in the US from their animals than through hijacking worldwide. Are we going to spend billions to protect farmers from their animals?

Edit: Realized that I didn't really close that loop. My point was, thousands of people die every year from dumb things, but we don't bat an eye. Terrorism has a high emotional impact on many people, so we react to it without reason. What Assange is doing may harm some people, but it's a rounding error in the grand scheme. Perhaps his actions will avert a global war. Perhaps they'll incite one. How do we weigh that risk? This is why we have principles.

[Sepir]

Google "world press freedom day" I can't post link yet cause I'm new.

[Deleted]

The only terorrist organization in the world I know of is CIA.

Sooner or later fucking America will pay for all their crimes... That's higher justice which ALWAYS takes place in history of empires. They are paying already now because folks over there believed all the bullshit being said by Bush 9 years ago... Where is their country now? Swimming in the shit I tell ya... Their deficit is terrible, their spoiled life style sponsored by China... For how long can this last?...

We all blamed Greece for irresponsible financial behavior... What are we going to say when United States are bankrupt? What are we going to do when WWIII starts because of that?

[Catta]

I'm of the opinion that the "Rally around the flag" effect was used(not the good kind of used) as a catalyst for a plan that was already going to take shape at one point or another. Saddam actually fought AL'Queda and kept them out of his country, so I don't really think they two are related other than one being used as an excuse for the other.

Now releasing these documents has a good and bad effect. The good is the information is out there for people to read themselves, but the bad part is so few people are capable of reasonable thought that they immediately jump on some kind of bandwagon without even bothering to really investigate all the information at hand. My point is that what he may have done was extreme journalism and probably not the best thing in the world right now, when you consider the state of foreign policy involving the US. That's not justification for him getting arrested and tried for some rape accusation, but he's not exactly some world peace hero for doing this either.

Another analogy I'm going to use is imagine that somebody had records of all the things you do in the privacy of your own home(possibly marital or family disputes, internet history, grades in school, etc) and released them for the whole neighborhood to check out. It's obviously far more complex than this, but it's the same general concept.

Well id say the american government should be afraid of ppl not capable of reasonable thought who jump on bandwagons... cuz thats what every so many americans do... it should not be viewed as an insult, but you do not have a large quantity of educated people compared to Europe... because u have to pay for higher education you will inevitably get huge quantities of uneducated people who the politicians can manipulate...

and i do not see it as any worse than lets say: the american tendency to post registered sex offenders adress and put their heads on posters and such, while the offense could be having sex with a prostitute who turns out to be a minor, you would still do it to protect the rest... essentially confidential information which is disputed for the good of the rest of the community... how hurting it may be for the person in question...

then you might say that the said person is a criminal... but from the looks of it... so is the US government appearntly

[rabbimojo]

Another analogy I'm going to use is imagine that somebody had records of all the things you do in the privacy of your own home(possibly marital or family disputes, internet history, grades in school, etc) and released them for the whole neighborhood to check out. It's obviously far more complex than this, but it's the same general concept.

Well, part of the problem there is that the government's right to privacy does not extend from the same place as an individual's. Furthermore, your privacy can be invaded with good reason, when it's deemed to be of interest to the community at large. It is not absolute, and neither is the government's right.

However, there is generally no oversight for the government's release of information. Part of the idea behind WikiLeaks is that things are given classified status with too little consideration. By releasing such documents, we can actually see the effects of declassification of various documents. The gamble is that the effects are mostly imagined.

To again invoke the Climategate thing, in spite of the lack of truth behind the accusations, the entire "scandal" has caused a lot of introspection in the climate research community, as well as a renewed interest in the scientific virtues of information sharing, thorough documentation, etc.

Trial by fire.

[Catta]

oh and btw, if Al'queda wasnt connected to Saddam, why was Iraq invaded? and btw... the CIA got Bin Laden the weapons he is now using, and then left when the russians left... which left Afghanistan in a state of civil unrest... ofc that will spawn people who dislikes america... they were used as pawns to push Russia back...

[Tempus]

Oh this thread is a dynamite waiting to go off.

I just really like the "jumbofile" he has that gets released if anything happens to him. Its very exiting, and its just so much like a mediocre film plot. :P

Well played mr wikileaksguy

[rabbimojo]

The only terorrist organization in the world I know of is CIA.

Sooner or later fucking America will pay for all their crimes... That's higher justice which ALWAYS takes place in history of empires. They are paying already now because folks over there believed all the bullshit being said by Bush 9 years ago... Where is their country now? Swimming in the shit I tell ya... Their deficit is terrible, their spoiled life style sponsored by China... For how long can this last?...

We all blamed Greece for irresponsible financial behavior... What are we going to say when United States are bankrupt? What are we going to do when WWIII starts because of that?

America certainly has its black marks, but so does every other nation. The follies of the "average" American are found in every community around the world.

There are a lot, and I mean a lot of people in the US who see these issues and try to fight them, but we are paralyzed as a country by ignorance and hotheadedness. Just as every country is - you show the same traits yourself.

Edit: My point is: If you really believe in virtue, you should limit your aggression to the portions of our population causing this. Painting with a broad brush makes you seem like the enemy of virtue, not an exemplar.

[Catta]

The only terorrist organization in the world I know of is CIA.

Sooner or later fucking America will pay for all their crimes... That's higher justice which ALWAYS takes place in history of empires. They are paying already now because folks over there believed all the bullshit being said by Bush 9 years ago... Where is their country now? Swimming in the shit I tell ya... Their deficit is terrible, their spoiled life style sponsored by China... For how long can this last?...

We all blamed Greece for irresponsible financial behavior... What are we going to say when United States are bankrupt? What are we going to do when WWIII starts because of that?

id be careful with the words there... being that heavily biased will make ppl skip right past your post... but yes i find it funny people do not blame the US more for the financial crisis... since it was the american trend of having loans in their houses and spending more than they really have that caused all this to begin

[Deleted]

everyone got pwnd by him :P <3 that guy

[Tholl]

I say that everyone who works for Wikileaks is a hero in my book. Too long have the 'sheeple' been lied to, used, stolen from, and abused by those who Govern.

It's about time some people tried to make a change and let the world know how messed up and shady our leaders really are. I am really hoping that the info on the banks is released soon. That will be a nice wake up call for people. (The only problem after that is getting those who read the info to actually get of thier collective asses and DO something about it).