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[Xenofreak]

I think Germany's problem is that Hitler was crazy, but ya know thats just my opinion

Yeah, I don't think you can blame Germany too much for getting desperate as hell considering what it was faced with after losing WWI. Complete economic destabilization will make people do some crazy things.

[Hardclass]

I agree, as an American we tend to overplay our hand in WW2 (even though it was significant in its own way, with two arenas of warfare across the world that we fought) but I don't sympathize with the German people whatsoever. They brought a brilliant, yet mad dictator into power and he led their country into ruin. They wanted to conquer Europe and the world, they got smacked down. As for Russia, if Stalin had actually cared about human lives, they would've lost against Germany. But yeah, Russia sacrificed a ton after Hitler betrayed them. They had decades of poverty, economic instability, dictatorship and loss of countless individual freedoms, but good for them also.

I don't agree with your statement about Germany, it's easy to paint a simplistic picture that because Hitler was the leader of Germany that makes all Germans bad people. That's just wrong on so many levels, yes Hitler came to power and notoriously did what he did, but he also as hard is this may be to accept, did good things for the country too. He saved Germany from dire straits economically by instituting a currency with a fixed unit of value, sure it's easy to say in hindsight 'well you shouldn't have brought him in' but do you honestly think they would have if they knew what ruin he would ultimately bring the country?

Back on point, the Germany people and your average soldier was absolutely no different from an Allied person, in fact most of them were forced to fight and did not do so willingly or did so with fear of reprise if they didn't go to war, or just like any other soldier....fought for their country. It's very short-sighted of you to place them into a good guys / bad guys category.

[goombear]

Yanks need to get over their self-importance. You're not the only country that fought and made sacrifices, in fact what Americans had to sacrifice is very limited if you compare it to the people of Germany or the Soviet Union in WW2. Just because Hollywood's made a million movies about how heroic the U.S was/is doesn't make its contributions any more important than any other country.

I know good ole Uncle Sam didn't just divinely descend from he skies and single handedly win the war. We helped, and so did other people, we were called the "allies" for a reason, collectively we won the war, and yes, America did play a part in that. In America, we look at the war a lot through our contributions, as does every other country, why? because we are celebrating the stories of the Americans that were in the war. I would expect France and the U.K. and every other nation to make media about the contributions and stories that their end of the alliance made. It's not to undermine the others, it's to celebrate our sacrifices and contributions, no matter what the scale was compared to others. Unfortunately for the others, Hollywood (which is based in America is it not?) is very present in the rest of the world, especially Western Europe, so they are going to see a lot of stuff deriving from the American experience in the war.

[Sanavi]

I think Germany's problem is that Hitler was crazy, but ya know thats just my opinion

Well, Hitler's population supported him and fought for him - there is very little historical references to the people assembling in private or public to denounce him stripping away their rights, or leading their nation into a two-front war. His military tried a coup, but got shutdown. The people though...not so much.

Dictators come into power because they prey on the weaknesses of their society...yet the society is the one that places them in power.

But Hitler was crazy, fo' sure.

---------- Post added 2011-02-01 at 01:52 PM ----------

I don't agree with your statement about Germany, it's easy to paint a simplistic picture that because Hitler was the leader of Germany that makes all Germans bad people. That's just wrong on so many levels, yes Hitler came to power and notoriously did what he did, but he also as hard is this may be to accept, did good things for the country too. He saved Germany from dire straits economically by instituting a currency with a fixed unit of value, sure it's easy to say in hindsight 'well you shouldn't have brought him in' but do you honestly think they would have if they knew what ruin he would ultimately bring the country?

Back on point, the Germany people and your average soldier was absolutely no different from an Allied person, in fact most of them were forced to fight and did not do so willingly or did so with fear of reprise if they didn't go to war, or just like any other soldier....fought for their country. It's very short-sighted of you to place them into a good guys / bad guys category.

Lol, Hitler saved Germany economically...for what, 10 years or so? Then their country was bombed to Hell and split up by two different political machines, and became servants to the West and East. Yeah, his long-term effects made Germany into the superpower and influential nation that it is today. /end sarcasm

Sidenote: When a nation tried to conquer most of the world, and loses, that 'most of the world' will portray that nation in an unfavorable light for quite some time, because that nation tried to conquer and destroy them. lol...

[Catta]

Did I say that we won it? Did I claim that I was there? No, but all I see from you is the belittlement of the sacrifices that Americans made for freedom, whether they be our human rights/sovereignty or yours.

if that is what you see, then you only see what you want - im saying that americans belittle the sacrifices the different countries made - just showing up in the last minute

[Laughriot]

If only this thread would die. Oh... oh if only... it turned into every country in the world attacking the U.S. oh... 78 pages ago, but for some reason the mods just let it hang out. Every time I come to mmo-champ and see it back in the "recent threads" section up at the top, I throw up in my mouth just a little bit more.

I wonder... if someone were to start a thread that quickly devolved into someone from the U.S. making fun of every other nation in the world, throwing out stereotypes, and claiming to be superior, would it get instantly locked? I tend to think it would.

[xylophone]

Well, Hitler's population supported him and fought for him - there is very little historical references to the people assembling in private or public to denounce him stripping away their rights, or leading their nation into a two-front war. His military tried a coup, but got shutdown. The people though...not so much.

Dictators come into power because they prey on the weaknesses of their society...yet the society is the one that places them in power.

But Hitler was crazy, fo' sure.

Like xeno was saying, the German people were pretty desperate after their economy was thrashed as a result of being stuck with the bill of WWI, but some things are inexcusable like the Holocaust.

[Catta]

I wouldn't say losing 24 million people constitutes 'besting' Germany (military + civilian deaths due to the war). If not for sheer volume of numbers and Germany marching straight into the Russian winter with limited supplies/adequate clothing I think it's fair to say they would have lost.

Deaths =/= loss, Vietnam is an example

---------- Post added 2011-02-01 at 10:56 PM ----------

If only this thread would die. Oh... oh if only... it turned into every country in the world attacking the U.S. oh... 78 pages ago, but for some reason the mods just let it hang out. Every time I come to mmo-champ and see it back in the "recent threads" section up at the top, I throw up in my mouth just a little bit more.

I wonder... if someone were to start a thread that quickly devolved into someone from the U.S. making fun of every other nation in the world, throwing out stereotypes, and claiming to be superior, would it get instantly locked? I tend to think it would.

as would any thread making fun of america... this is not just bashing, but a discussion of transperency in government, getting derailed but still has some degree of the original topic in it

[Laughriot]

if that is what you see, then you only see what you want - im saying that americans belittle the sacrifices the different countries made - just showing up in the last minute

Yep, all Americans do this. All of them. Not just the ones who are too ignorant to know better, or the ones who have never taken a college history class. All of them. What a true generalization! You sure hit the nail on the head. Every American is exactly the same, and stereotypes are always true, and using them makes me think that you are a very intelligent, well-read individual who knows what he is about. I was wondering... do you have a news letter that I can subscribe to? I am extremely interested in what you are saying, in this thread.

[xylophone]

if that is what you see, then you only see what you want - im saying that americans belittle the sacrifices the different countries made - just showing up in the last minute

I'm not looking down on anything that other countries did/sacrificed, and you may not admit it now but I can guarantee that your predecessors were grateful for our help, military, financial or otherwise.

[Kalyyn]

Deaths =/= loss, Vietnam is an example

---------- Post added 2011-02-01 at 10:56 PM ----------



as would any thread making fun of america... this is not just bashing, but a discussion of transperency in government, getting derailed but still has some degree of the original topic in it

The difference between Russia and vietnam is that Vietnam just got us to leave and called it a draw. Russia, on the other hand, marched straight into the heart of Germany and claimed victory. The only way the Vietnamese could have said to have won after those losses would have been if the Vietcong flew their banner over the White House. Which, if memory serves, never happened.

---------- Post added 2011-02-01 at 09:59 PM ----------

I'm not looking down on anything that other countries did/sacrificed, and you may not admit it now but I can guarantee that your predecessors were grateful for our help, military, financial or otherwise.

damn right!

[Hardclass]

Well, Hitler's population supported him and fought for him - there is very little historical references to the people assembling in private or public to denounce him stripping away their rights, or leading their nation into a two-front war. His military tried a coup, but got shutdown. The people though...not so much.

Dictators come into power because they prey on the weaknesses of their society...yet the society is the one that places them in power.

But Hitler was crazy, fo' sure.

---------- Post added 2011-02-01 at 01:52 PM ----------



Lol, Hitler saved Germany economically...for what, 10 years or so? Then their country was bombed to Hell and split up by two different political machines, and became servants to the West and East. Yeah, his long-term effects made Germany into the superpower and influential nation that it is today. /end sarcasm

Want to address my other points?

Looks like the point blew over your head completely I wasn't trying to paint Hitler into a good person, but merely try and show you WHY he was brought into power by the people in the first place. It was because Germany was struggling financially in a post-ww1 environment, and when people are desperate they will choose whoever offers the best solution. Hitler was that person. To them he would have seemed like any other charismatic politician, not some jew-hating war-mongerer. Yes hindsight is a great thing isn't it...coz the German people knew that he was going to start up a war didn't they? So, so ignorant.

[Catta]

I'm not looking down on anything that other countries did/sacrificed, and you may not admit it now but I can guarantee that your predecessors were grateful for our help, military, financial or otherwise.

You seem to forget some countries sided with germany

[Sanavi]

I don't agree with your statement about Germany, it's easy to paint a simplistic picture that because Hitler was the leader of Germany that makes all Germans bad people. That's just wrong on so many levels, yes Hitler came to power and notoriously did what he did, but he also as hard is this may be to accept, did good things for the country too. He saved Germany from dire straits economically by instituting a currency with a fixed unit of value, sure it's easy to say in hindsight 'well you shouldn't have brought him in' but do you honestly think they would have if they knew what ruin he would ultimately bring the country?

Back on point, the Germany people and your average soldier was absolutely no different from an Allied person, in fact most of them were forced to fight and did not do so willingly or did so with fear of reprise if they didn't go to war, or just like any other soldier....fought for their country. It's very short-sighted of you to place them into a good guys / bad guys category.

That's just wrong on so many levels, yes Hitler came to power and notoriously did what he did, but he also as hard is this may be to accept, did good things for the country too.

You're right, he did build Germany back up, and if this was 1936 your words would seem accurate...but seeing as we can apply hindsight, all he did was destroy his country in the end, so how is anything he did leading up to the implosion of his 'thousand-year Empire' actually good? They were just as desperate and poor and beaten and worn down in 1945-1946 as they were after WW1. Good argument, bro. I'm sure the German people looked back on the 1930s in the 1940s and said, "Things got better with Hitler in power then, seems like a fair trade-off to me." Lol.

And Hitler was re-building his military in 1935, 3 years after he came into power, still years away from WW2. If the German people didn't see war on the horizon, they're as blind as Ray Charles.

[xylophone]

You seem to forget some countries sided with germany

Sucks for them, maybe next time don't through in your hat with a fascist psychopath.

[Deleted]

a fun read regarding the US of A and Nazi Germany (since I cant post links here, go google this, should be the first link):
nazi connection bethune institute

makes you think, doesn't it !

[Deleted]

The fact that you are denying the truth in his statements means you've bought into the utterly ridiculous anti-America propaganda they spew east of Germany. You are the one who has been fed lies, sir.

Two pages ago I addressed "the truth" of his statements in some detail. I understand rah-rah-ing is easier than addressing actual facts, but just for a change of pace how about you answer point by point where you think I went wrong?

[Deleted]

That's just wrong on so many levels, yes Hitler came to power and notoriously did what he did, but he also as hard is this may be to accept, did good things for the country too.

You're right, he did build Germany back up, and if this was 1936 your words would seem accurate...but seeing as we can apply hindsight, all he did was destroy his country in the end, so how is anything he did leading up to the implosion of his 'thousand-year Empire' actually good? They were just as desperate and poor and beaten and worn down in 1945-1946 as they were after WW1. Good argument, bro. I'm sure the German people looked back on the 1930s in the 1940s and said, "Things got better with Hitler in power then, seems like a fair trade-off to me." Lol.

And Hitler was re-building his military in 1935, 3 years after he came into power, still years away from WW2. If the German people didn't see war on the horizon, they're as blind as Ray Charles.

You know back in the Days the only Thing most People had was Radios and Newspapers ... Yeah blame the Germans for not seeing it early on the Internet and all the Media reporting it on Televison.

[Deleted]

Sucks for them, maybe next time don't through in your hat with a fascist psychopath.

Oh you mean Stalin?

---------- Post added 2011-02-01 at 10:24 PM ----------

You know back in the Days the only Thing most People had was Radios and Newspapers ... Yeah blame the Germans for not seeing it early on the Internet and all the Media reporting it on Televison.

Dude? Seriously? You know your argument has gone off the rails when you start defending Hitler. Or trying to add any kind of nuance to his regime. Take a walk back a little bit and try to think where it was that your thinking has gone so terribly wrong. Maybe take a walk around the block.


And if you think Germans didn't know what Hitler was, then you need to go back to whatever equivalent of high school is where you come from and retake whatever passes for a history class there. Or, I dunno, read the cliffs notes of Mein Kampf or something. I'm sure you can find a precis on that internet thing you mentioned.

[Kalyyn]

Two pages ago I addressed "the truth" of his statements in some detail. I understand rah-rah-ing is easier than addressing actual facts, but just for a change of pace how about you answer point by point where you think I went wrong?

I did. You implied that America did not create the internet. We did. Or at the very least, we created computers, and the technology to link computers. You also implied that we didn't do shit during ww2. We single handedly defeated the Japanese, and while Europe paid the heaviest price in lives, we paid for your guns, your tanks, your airplanes, your warships, and hell, we didn't even make you pay us back (Well, we tried to, but your governments decided our generous loan was actually a gift...)
And I don't blame you. Like I said before, if you live anywhere east of Germany, your media has nothing better to do than make shit up about America. Just like we don't get the whole story about you guys over here, you are told lies and slander about us over there. Your media is just as fallible as ours, but where ours goes after Arabs, yours makes shit up about America.

---------- Post added 2011-02-01 at 10:31 PM ----------

Sucks for them, maybe next time don't through in your hat with a fascist psychopath.

I don't blame them particularly, for a small nation so close to Germany, what other choice did they have? It was that or be destroyed.