Shammy healing issues

[Bblubbs]

< Sad to see our "Staple" heal go the way of the Dodo Chain Heal I'll miss you

I'll still use it every once in a while just to see the graphic. Screw being 100% mana efficient all the time.

[Kenai]

I personally like Chain Heal being situational now. UE doesn't get much use otherwise anyway, unless I use it before a GHW and the tank needs it. HW spammers is fine because I know how often they are actually going to be able to get away with it, at least for another 1-2 content levels. I hope these aren't the same shaman who will surely complain that they "can't keep up" with other healers in raids because they aren't used to using anything else, because that would just be all kinds of karma.

In other news I'm going to make a topic on something (well, 3 things) that I have been wondering for a while, just little discrepancies. I don't want to clutter this topic with it and it might not be today but it's just something I've been needing to ask.

[Jaraxxus]

He really really is. You have a bunch of abilities, and that person is going to be utter fail in any raid content if all he knows how to do is hit one button/keybind.

You really didn't read. He's saying its boring that he can spam that and keep everyone up in a heroic, similar to chain heal in wrath. He's not saying " LOL all i do is spam HW in raids and its tha best!"

...

[jfuze]

You really didn't read. He's saying its boring that he can spam that and keep everyone up in a heroic, similar to chain heal in wrath. He's not saying " LOL all i do is spam HW in raids and its tha best!"

...

lol for real, these guys took everything i said WAY out of context.

I said its lame spamming HW in heroics. Just like spamming CH in WOTLK. Thats all I said.

[Jaraxxus]

Anyone else feel...beefier today? I feel like we got a silent buff....or maybe I'm playing better. or maybe my gear caught up. But we just did heroic tol'vir with no CC and I basically didn't go sub 40% mana, except on the 3rd boss...hm. Not bragging just wondering if anyone else feels a little more buffed?

[Deleted]

Anyone else feel...beefier today? I feel like we got a silent buff....or maybe I'm playing better. or maybe my gear caught up. But we just did heroic tol'vir with no CC and I basically didn't go sub 40% mana, except on the 3rd boss...hm. Not bragging just wondering if anyone else feels a little more buffed?

Better gear, believe me. When you get your first 346es, you'll first notice on your manareg/pool.

[Deleted]

Ok...just need a few answers regarding the shaman healing.
I was reading on sites such as EJ that they say the best stat to go for is Int (ofc) then haste etc etc.
Isnt haste pretty useless now?? I mean in wrath haste was our best stat as you needed those really fast heals as tanks could take sooo much damage in 1-2 seconds that you needed the fast heals (like soul reaper on LK).
Now the tanks just seem to gradually take damage so being able to cast my heals that bit quicker isnt as necessary. Also being able to cast quicker means i use mana faster which to me seems a bit pointless at the moment.
I have started to reforge all my haste/mastery into crit as our crit rating is so low compare to wrath. I am now sitting on 20% crit unbuffed and will go to 25% ish in raids/heroics. Surely crit is a vey good stat for us over other things...i mean if i can crit a HW for 11-14k surely that is so much better mana wise than being able to cast 2 HW with loads of haste stacked.....same goes for Unleashed Elements and GHW....I have seen that crit for over 50k before now and quite often.
Now I am managing ok in heroics (had a few probs with that fire boss in HOO when everyone gets the fire ticks on them and then the big aoe...i just couldnt keep everyone up)....but then ditched mana spring and used healing stream for the fire res buff and presto...healing 25% easier, so there are ways around healing each encounter....but i am finding healing in raids an absolute nightmare...So much damage going around that HW on tanks wont cut it so have to use more expensive heals....raid damage so high so using Healing Rain then mana use goes out the window.
Now the raid is avoiding stuff but for big aoe times like on Omnitron fire one we as healers in the guild are finding it hard to keep everyone up.
So basic question comes down to..
1. What glyphs are people using?? (Prime and major)
2. What stats are people thinking are most important (and please give your reasoning)...Dont just say 'stack haste as its all you will need'...explain to me why thisis more beneficial over other stats.
I am just getting really confused over the stat issue at the mo and what to reforge..
3. Also what are peoples combat regen at and should i be stackinbg more spirit??? ( I am sitting on about 2.8k).

Sorry for the wall of text btw...lol

[Deleted]

Poster above me, read the guide that is stickied on this forum.
Haste mathmatically is probaly one of best stats, in practise its poor due to the current mana problems.
Everything else is in the guide.

[Deleted]

Some more numbers...

Unleash Elements costs 7% base mana and boosts heal by 30% - 20% base * 50% boost from Elemental Weapons.

Its usual use as far as I can see is to boost GHW or CH. For a GHW the cost is 30% base mana. Since base mana at 85 is 23430 mana this is a 7029 mana cost. UE is a 1640 cost. This then means you can spend 1640/7029 = 23% more mana for a 30% healing boost if you prefix a GHW with a UE.

So UE+GHW = 8669 mana for 1.3 * GHW vs 14058 mana for 2 * GHW. However UE+GHW = 4.5 sec cast (reduced by haste) vs GHW+GHW 6 sec cast (reduced by haste). ie: UE is only boosting your heal by 5.4% over what casting two GHW back to back cost.

However since UE uses a GCD the difference is simply cast time. UE+GHW = 1.5sec+3sec hasted down to your level of haste. So it takes 4.5/6 = 75% of the time and is 5.4% better. So overall the boost seems to be 40.54% if you cast UE+GHW vs GHW+GHW

For Chain Heal its less as mana cost is 20% so the costs are 4686 mana vs 6326 ie: 35% more mana for 30% healing boost. The casts are UE+CH = 3.5 sec (reduced by haste) vs 4 sec (reduced by haste).

So the costs are 6326 mana for UE+CH vs 9372 for CH+CH for a 3.5sec vs 4 sec cast thus by the same calcs above we get only a 10.05% boost by using UE+CH. Still that's decent.

All this assumes 2 points in Elemental Weapons.

[destero1]

Some more numbers...
Its usual use as far as I can see is to boost GHW or CH. For a GHW the cost is 30% base mana. Since base mana at 85 is 23430 mana this is a 7029 mana cost. UE is a 1640 cost. This then means you can spend 1640/7029 = 23% more mana for a 30% healing boost if you prefix a GHW with a UE.

that 30% boost + the initial heal of UE.

If you really have to heal tank quickly from the low hp the best combo is obviously RT+UE+GHW+GHW, if you think tank will live for the next 4.5 secs ( assuming RT, UE on 1.5sec GCD and RT boosted GHW casting time to be 1.5 sec)
If you're not expecting any spiky dmg, I don't see anything wrong with RT+UE+HWx2 combo - very cheap and sufficiently quick way to heal through moderate damage.

[Deleted]

that 30% boost + the initial heal of UE.

If one has time to top the tank (and if you really have to top the tank) the best combo is obviously RT+UE+GHW+GHW
If you're not expecting any spiky dmg, I don't see anything wrong with RT+UE+HWx2 combo - very cheap and sufficiently quick way to heal through moderate damage.

Very good point I'd not noticed the actual heal too which seems to be 1995 average + SP * co-efficient, not sure what co-efficient is and no-one on EJ or Wowpedia seems to have come up with a value either. Although a combat log on EJ suggests a co-effiecent of around 0.42.

[Deleted]

Good players still get to start DPSing or healing again 15% faster than the dude without Ancestral Swiftness.

Even if you'd never need it for avoidance, you want it for maximizing throughput.

Reading your posts, you must be a clown.

Is this the logic of kids these days?. Personally I do spec this talent, but for different reasons than the massive and stupid statement that your going to be generally 15% more efficient at your job. I have healed heroics on shaman, priest and paladin. All are very similar with different perks, healing very close numbers in equal gear. So that answers silly posts about shaman being shocking healers.

People have certain play styles and thinking to work out tacs for every encounter. If your struggling to heal then it's probably a case that not everyone knows their job, usually the case. For me, you can take half the talents out ofthe resto tree and I'll still be able to heal fine. It's brilliant that content is much harder than wotlk content, and I welcome that with open arms.

[Radux]

No one is saying can't heal without Ancestral Swiftness. We're just saying that you can get to your movement destination 15% faster, thus can start healing/dpsing faster than if you didn't have the talent. Being a good player does help negate some of the need. It may be just a 1% thing or whatever, but faster movement = less damage taken in bad things + chance to heal/dps sooner. It also means you can enchant your boots with something with more throughput (stat wise) than giving up half the stat for increased run speed.

There has been plenty of math on EJ showing why run speed increases are mandatory.

[Rousseau]

I really do not see why people are complaining about shaman heals. I can heal heroics just fine by just using Riptide, Unleash weapon, and Healing Wave.

[shammybammy]

What happened to chain heal?

[Kaliara]

that 30% boost + the initial heal of UE.

Without any talent/trinket procs:
For me UE heal is about 4.2k and costs 1640mana. 2.5HP per mana approx.
Healing wave heals for 6.4k and costs 1981mana. 3.2HP per mana approx.

So it's not quite as mana efficient as HW but it's close. That plus the boost makes it a very appealing spell to me!

[Shivaji]

Much like other Shaman the first herioic I stepped into I was in a constant state of OOM. It was not impossible to heal through a boss fight but it was so stressful I stepped back for a couple od day and just did not run any heroics. I was contemplating my future as a healer and all that jazz. I read every post, looked at every spec and talked to other healers to get their input.

It just took time to sink in that
1) Everyone does not have to be topped off all the time. 2) Letting DPS Die if they stand in stuff they should not will help them learn while trying to heal them through it will hurt the party and the player. 3) HS/GHW are for emergencies only.

Healing Wave and Riptide make up most of the heals I cast as well as Unleashed Elements on CD unless there is just no damage coming in. When appropriate, Healing Rain (predictable aoe damge where 3+ people are grouped). Natures Swiftness + GHW is a great emergency for tanks, the occasional GHW or HS is not going to kill you but they are not spamable unless you still have a lot of mana at the end of a fight and it is make or break to keep a tank or dps up to complete the encounter.

[Deleted]

Much like other Shaman the first herioic I stepped into I was in a constant state of OOM. It was not impossible to heal through a boss fight but it was so stressful I stepped back for a couple od day and just did not run any heroics. I was contemplating my future as a healer and all that jazz. I read every post, looked at every spec and talked to other healers to get their input.

It just took time to sink in that
1) Everyone does not have to be topped off all the time. 2) Letting DPS Die if they stand in stuff they should not will help them learn while trying to heal them through it will hurt the party and the player. 3) HS/GHW are for emergencies only.

Healing Wave and Riptide make up most of the heals I cast as well as Unleashed Elements on CD unless there is just no damage coming in. When appropriate, Healing Rain (predictable aoe damge where 3+ people are grouped). Natures Swiftness + GHW is a great emergency for tanks, the occasional GHW or HS is not going to kill you but they are not spamable unless you still have a lot of mana at the end of a fight and it is make or break to keep a tank or dps up to complete the encounter.

Pretty much the thing i do. But people still whine about bad healing cause dps's die, and i can't stop laughing cause they are standing in blue shit all the time.. people need to follow the tacs..

[Dietrik]

We have lost some of the effectiveness of our trademark heal, but its still a useful spell. With it went some of the distinction between raid heal and tank heal.

In heroics currently yes you can get by with HW, UE and RT. But repeat after me "I am not a paladin".

Why cast HW on two targets when you can cast CH on one and it heal the second, it also procs Tidal waves to go back to the tank (who may still have a RT from the last cast) and cast GHW or HW. CH makes us more time efficient, its a good way to proc tidal waves if RT is still ticking, especially if you have glyphed it. Our heals are more situational. Don't recast RT just to proc TW when you don't need it CH is still a great spell, just not a spam spell any more. Leaving a DPS at 60% is fine, but healing them with CH to reduce downtime is better, and prevents a wipe if someone accidentally pulls that other group..

CH should never be cast on a single target, if its not going to jump cast HW. That was the problem with it in LK, people could and often did single target heal with it. Made for very lazy shaman healers.

Shamans need to stop glyphing RT and then casting it again before the glyph effect makes a difference, if you are a RT spammer, then replace this with ELW.

Someone said haste is a wasted stat because you will go OOM quicker, why? surely you would cast the same number of spells just have less actual cast time (mobility ftw) and your HOTs would tick more. Haste IMO is still the best shammy stat with mastery, int and spirit. Your level of gear and skill just defines the order.

People make mistakes if you don't then good for you, but its a game, distractions come in many forms. Your are a healer not some kind of life coach.

[bluefurryfood]

Now yes I know theres the element of "oh now healers need to pick their heals for the situation", so lets say a boss does a huge AoE that brings everybody to 20%, clearly this calls for emergency heals so I'm not gonna go with a slow heal, lets pick Healing Surge. There we go I get the group to around 60%+ all around, but this took me roughly 10 casts of Healing Surge, not to mention riptides, which knocks me back a solid 70k, with some mana regen on the side that maybe leaves me with 10-20k mana..thats oom in my book. Should I have chose Healing Wave instead, it would have taken more or less 20+ casts, and with its 2.3 cast time..thats way too slow now isnt it. Mix it up and you get a struggle between your mana and trying to find a heal that will give back a decent chuck of hp without sucking you mana out. Game Over Brah

Out of curiosity can you point out a fight that, if done properly, still takes everyone to from 100% to 20% health? Given those kind of mechanics its usually 100% to 1% health (for example the first boss in sfk) but usually compensates by giving plenty of time to cast some slow heals or another mechanic that helps you (allow the example boss to "heal" the party for a few ticks before interrupting). I cannot think of any fight that would require to do that much healing that quickly. Even if there was such a fight you would not need to heal them up to 60%. Any damaging attack I've seen within a heroic either gives you enough time to predict who it is going to go to or doesn't do more than 30% of the targets health in the first place. Anything doing 60%+ of a targets health is usually their mistake not yours.

Also, for the sake of arguing, the AoE boss in Halls of Origination wouldn't count because it does give time for you to heal the group.