Will random dungeons survive the beginning of Cataclysm?

[sluddyazin]

Basically, I have been reading a great number of threads from tanks and healers and from what I see most of them are bailing on the idea of running randoms entirely in favor of guild only. It seems tanks are fed up with the WOTLK dps style players failing to CC and attacking random targets making their lives miserable. Jump to the healer forums and you see healers complaining that they are not currently setup to spam heals on dps who ignore dungeon mechanics (ie: not getting out of avoidable damage).

I wonder if enough tanks and enough healers will abandon the LFD heroics altogether making dps queue times 30min plus, or if they will join and the second they realize they have the WOTLK dpsers quit the dungeon. I just don't think the WoW community has the overall patience to push through the 3 hour dungeon fails while people relearn their classes.

I myself am a resto shaman and will continue to queue, but I hear stories on my server of people already giving up.

TL DR - Is LF Heroic Dungeons going to die or force dps to wait in 30+ min queues? Your thoughts.

[Maeleena]

LFD will easily survive it. It is just a question of whether Blizzard's playerbase (aka # of subscriptions) will...

[Alsonia]

My thoughts. I don't already wait 30 minutes to carry a group?

[Kurgosh]

DPS already has 30+ minute queues. Lowest I've seen was about 20 minutes, and more usually 45 minutes in my battlegroup.

[sluddyazin]

I guess it all depends on the server for your queue times. The usual wait for dps on my server prior to cata was probably around 10-15 minutes. Basically, I'm thinking this time could double or triple and you will get the, "abandon all hope!"

[Hoomin]

I think that LFD, while it won't completely die off, will be LARGELY suboptimal. You should run with a guild / group of friends as often as you can.

[Minaah]

Already seeing this happen on my server. DPS Q's are sitting at 30-50mins or more, and thats at 'peak' play times. I've played a tank and healer on 4 classes almost exclusively from Vanilla til now, and after a few horrible pug experiences and nightmare tales from guildies and friends, I've gone boomkin offspec on my druid instead of resto. Main spec = bear and I'll Q as tank w/guildies, but not for a pug. It is indeed pretty scarey out there.

[Agetro]

Right now, it seems like I am the noob since I have really only run all the instances once, except for stonecore which I've run about 4 times. In all instances, everyone seemed to know what they were doing, or listened to what the leader said to do. I've been lucky I guess. *knock on wood* Hope it keeps going that well in the future.

[Nexdominus]

I've tanked on 2 classes and healed on another. I will no longer be using the LFD tool for pugs. I'll only be tanking and healing for guild runs. Until the "fail DPS" out there L2P.

[Sunseeker]

The story isn't much better from the DPS side. We are already slammed with queues that can easily reach an hour or more in length, and when we do get dungeons, we are plagued with tanks who think we're in Wrath and pull everything, or healers who want to spot-heal everything. And worse are the people, from tanks to healers to DPS, who think that if people won't do as they say, they'll leave group, what do they care, they've got a 5-min queue!

I've heard that random heroics are better. People are experienced with the dungeons by then, people are geared better, some players have been weeded out entirely.

Personally, as a DPS, I'm edging into giving up and doing guild-runs only. I'm tired of the insane waits and the horrid attitudes I experience, it's simply more stressful than fun.

There are stupid tanks, bad healers, fail DPS. If you're blaming one group and claiming no responsibility on you're own, you're likely part of the problem.

[sluddyazin]

Haha. Your post is my fear Minaah. I see more and more like it everywhere I look and I can't say that I blame you. When you play for entertainment and only have a few hours the last thing you want to do is log in on your tank or healer and get done with 1 heroic in that time due to continuous failures for the same reasons. I'm just hoping enough people pull through and relearn mechanics quick enough before people give up on LFD altogether.

EDIT: Nex and Smrund - you are the consensus from what I can tell. I completely see both your points.

[baron1232]

I don't think the LFD system will fail, I mean, it's not even a week into Cata. And nerfs to dungeons will come out sooner or later (we all know they'll happen.) Just give it time, people will get the mechanics and all the "hard" stuff.

[xindralol]

Well when heroics were challenging before during the first few weeks of TBC, there was no random LFG so it's hard to tell; back then I was almost exclusively playing with my guild.
I don't play anymore, but if heroics are anything like hero slabs was, for example, you could probably overcome at least some of the mistakes of fellow group members through proper use of your skills/spells - just thinking after 1st boss in slabs a mage could just kite / kill the mobs even after a rogue oneshotted healer - or poison killed tank while healer was locked down etc.
Unless you get 2+ failures in your group there's not much to worry about (unless maybe ... m a y b e ... you're the problem yourself?!).
And yes, random LFG will survive of course, but it probably will become more sophisticated, one way or the other.

[Sunseeker]

I don't think the LFD system will fail, I mean, it's not even a week into Cata. And nerfs to dungeons will come out sooner or later (we all know they'll happen.) Just give it time, people will get the mechanics and all the "hard" stuff.

This is probably the most true. Come January, I suspect that dungeon nerfs will have been made, but considering the rate at which high guilds are taking down raids, I wouldn't be surprised to see some raid buffs either. A week into the game and a guild is 12/12? that's a bit much IMO.

[Deathfairy]

In all honesty there are ONLY 4 pure dps classes. Every hybrid class needs to dual spec into tank/heals and STFU about queue times. Gearing up 2 specs in heroics is barely a problem. I am main cat, i tank my heroics, Sure druid are lucky with tsame gear, but i pretty much have full resto set as well by now.

[Kiry]

In all honesty there are ONLY 4 pure dps classes. Every hybrid class needs to dual spec into tank/heals and STFU about queue times. Gearing up 2 specs in heroics is barely a problem. I am main cat, i tank my heroics, Sure druid are lucky with tsame gear, but i pretty much have full resto set as well by now.

Gearing up for heroics for two specs this early in the game is a problem. I'd rather play with someone that is well geared in one spc then moderately geared in two.

Random normal is fine. Random heroics are challenging. People queing in with just enough gear, barely any knowledge. You have to have patience, and you can't approach a boss the same way you would on normal mode.

It's still early, but random heroics seems to be more successful when guildies group up in packs of 2+ versus single players.

[sluddyazin]

In all honesty there are ONLY 4 pure dps classes. Every hybrid class needs to dual spec into tank/heals and STFU about queue times. Gearing up 2 specs in heroics is barely a problem.

I get what you are saying. I am a healer and I will continue to queue and fight through it. My point is that a great deal of healers and tanks are giving up. You can see from the forums on this site alone that this is true. I don't think the fix will come from dps choosing a tank spec and tanking. If they do, they too will see the same problems as current tanks and healers. We also got a little spoiled since in WOTLK you could spam 4 heroics an hour with no wipes and get your points. This is not the case any more and people are QQ all over the place. One wipe and a tank or healer drops and the group goes by the wayside. When this happens enough people find better ways to spend their time.

I think there is a HUGE discrepancy between the guilds that are 12/12 already and the average casual filling up the LFD queues. I highly doubt those people even visit the LFD tool. If you nerf content that high end guilds master in 1 week they will QQ. If you leave it the same casuals will QQ about it being too hard. Tough spot for Blizzard.

[Maeleena]

I think there is a HUGE discrepancy between the guilds that are 12/12 already and the average casual filling up the LFD queues. I highly doubt those people even visit the LFD tool. If you nerf content that high end guilds master in 1 week they will QQ. If you leave it the same casuals will QQ about it being too hard. Tough spot for Blizzard.

I say keep current tier raid content as hard as it is until the next tier is released, then nerf it to hell and back so the casuals/baddies/whatever can do that content, leaving the next tier hard so that the 'hardcore/good' players can still have a challenge. Teir'd difficulty is the way Blizzard needs to go to keep everyone happy, because heroic modes for bosses isn't cutting it, because it is just the same boss just with an added ability which is meh.

[Lupein]

I have only done Cataclysm Dungeons & Heroics as DPS and I find that there are a lot of tanks that don't understand the concept of CC.

I play an enhancement shaman and the good tanks love the fact that I can CC two targets in instances like Grim Batol. I've had many tanks that despite marking targets for Hex, Sheep, Sap, Bind Elemental, etc. they still pull the whole damn group and put dots on them (rend, consecration, D & D).

So it's not all DPS that are failing, there are a ton of tanks that are still completely clueless Wrath Kiddies.

I don't even bother pugging heroics because of how dangerous it is. I'll pug specifically easier ones like Halls of Origination or Throne of Tides but there are some like Grim Batol where you might as well not even bother unless you go with tank & healer friends.

[baron1232]

This is probably the most true. Come January, I suspect that dungeon nerfs will have been made, but considering the rate at which high guilds are taking down raids, I wouldn't be surprised to see some raid buffs either. A week into the game and a guild is 12/12? that's a bit much IMO.

But you have to take into consideration, these are TOP END raiding guilds.. They were in Beta for a while, so if you have something down, it's not going to be much harder after you know what you're doing.

Now the ones who weren't in Beta/people who were introduced to WoW post BC, have no idea what to expect/don't know what CC is, so trying to learn and execute these strategies.. This will be something new and will have to learn in the coming days (which is happening right now, Heroic or normal.)