Upcoming mage nerfs preference?

[coldbear]

Hi. Ferals are OP right now. Nerfs are inc, thank god - too many FOTM people in my spec that I've been playing for 5+ years. I'm hungry for some damage nerfs but would think it more equitable that ferals have to sit in Polymorph like everyone else rather than not being able to break Fear with Berserk. Oh well. Maybe locks and priests need a break.

So I was watching http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=147169 today and it occurred to me that frost mages have always had pretty darn good control (Poorguy of Stonemaul winning a 1v7 chainfight). No surprise there. Either case I'm thinking they're looking at Ring of Frost and CC durations in PvP, which I'm sure many mages will hate to see nerfed.

My question:

Assuming that mages will eat some control nerfs and maybe damage nerfs, how should they best go about implementing that, from a perspective of overall class/spec balance?

If you can offer your pvp credentials with your opinion or give me a link to read up on - I'd love to hear reasonable, smart opinions as opposed to "mages are fine, L2P noob!"

I myself have very little arena credentials but have been pvping since a month after release.

[Theonen]

I know this is going to get massive, bad response but I think they need the number of snares and/or CC's in general decreased too.

[Tickspoon]

Mage DPS is probably going to be buffed, not nerfed.

I expect Ring of frost duration will get nerfed though.

[Bahll]

Frost has always been great at control. I think if any nerfs are coming in, RoF will have its radius and duration reduced. (most likely)

Other than that Frost is much the same as it was at 80 (pre 4.0)

Once our shields are down, we are very very squishy. The trick is getting close enough

[skylla05]

Control nerfs, damage buffs*

Mage damage is not out of control in any aspect of this game. What's out of control is Frost Mages having far too many abilities to control their opponent. Unfortunately, that's where Frost damage is tied into. My point is that no direct damage nerf is needed, the nerf to control will be enough to nerf the damage output a Frost Mage can do in PvP (which will also nerf their survivability).

TLDR: 95% of Frost Mage damage comes from the target being frozen. Take away our ability to gain freezes, and you're taking away our damage.

In PvE, every Mage spec need a damage buff, and Blizzard has even acknowledged it (though still keeping an eye on Fire and Frost).

And to be fair, while a 7v1 video is cute... it's hardly grounds for anything except displaying 7 very terrible players. Under normal circumstances against opponents with half a brain, 7v1 is not happening. yes I understand it was a "chain", but it still doesn't prove anything. Warlocks and Druids could do that too.

My opinions on what will get nerfed. Ring of Frost losing synergy with Shatter, if not more nerfs to it such as a longer coalescence, radius and/or duration. Imp CoC will be removed/changed. DF duration reduced to 3 seconds, which will prevent a triple hit. Frost Nova duration reduced and/or changed to allow less damage (forcing you to glyph for it). But who knows.

[Swizzle]

Frost Nova: 6 second max duration, down from 8
RoF: 6 second max duration on PvP flagged targets, 10 seconds max duration on PvE mobs. 3 seconds to form, full duration 10 seconds down from 12.

All that needs to be done really.

[coldbear]

Ummm, I'm very surprised at the level of informative responses so far. Thanks. I was actually looking for that, not trolling.

I totally get the 1v7 thing. All the stars were aligned, perfect play on perfect terrain against undergeared/bad/unprepared opponents etc.

One more question - Ice Lance? Do all mages think that's fine and the QQ from other players is just misinformed/bad players?

[ipoststuff]

I think blizz should just forget about frost PvE. Give them 2 specs to PvE and make frost PvP only. I know there are people who wanna PvE as frost. But frost is the most OP spec in pvp while its one of the worst in PvE. Goodluck balancing that.

[Swizzle]

Ummm, I'm very surprised at the level of informative responses so far. Thanks. I was actually looking for that, not trolling.

I totally get the 1v7 thing. All the stars were aligned, perfect play on perfect terrain against undergeared/bad/unprepared opponents etc.

One more question - Ice Lance? Do all mages think that's fine and the QQ from other players is just misinformed/bad players?

Ice Lance is actually the lowest priority spell to use against frozen targets, and even on FoF procs.
The order goes on ACTUALLY frozen: Deep Freeze-->BF FFB-->Frostbolt-->Ice Lance, while on FoF procs it goes: Deep Freeze-->BF FFB-->Ice Lance.

Ice Lance scales very poorly and actually does less damage, based on percent max health, than it has in the past. It gets targeted a lot by QQ because there are a LOT of leftover FOTM reroll Mages from the end of WotLK who do nothing but Ice Lance spam, making it stand out in people's memory. Sure, I can get a nice trinket proc, or pick up Berserking, or Spellsteal Avenging Wrath and crit you for a healthy portion of your health through a Shatter combo, but that sort of play isn't consistent and it isn't the norm (especially not in arena where Berserking isn't present).

Go watch Reckful's 3v3 video and see how effective Ice Lance is on geared players.

[tifania]

How exactly do you plan on nerfing mages? They already have pretty horrible DPS as it is. Explain how a nerf will help this problem?

[Lupein]

Ring of Frost needs nerfs all around. Radius, duration, cooldown, and effect duration.

And no, I'm not qqing without reason. I've got 3352 resilience and very adequate pvp experience. Ring of frost is just too powerful to be used that often.

[Swizzle]

Ring of Frost needs nerfs all around. Radius, duration, cooldown, and effect duration.

And no, I'm not qqing without reason. I've got 3352 resilience and very adequate pvp experience. Ring of frost is just too powerful to be used that often.

Just a question...what on Earth does your resilience total have to do with Ring of Frost?

[coldbear]

How exactly do you plan on nerfing mages? They already have pretty horrible DPS as it is. Explain how a nerf will help this problem?

I'm not planning, but I think Blizz is based on the recent comments. I don't think many players are saying mage PVE dps needs a nerf. This is mostly about PVP control.

Thanks Swizzle for the Ice Lance teaching.

---------- Post added 2011-01-06 at 12:11 AM ----------

Just a question...what on Earth does your resilience total have to do with Ring of Frost?

I'm guessing he's trying to show that he's got pvp experience enough to have gathered 3352 Resil.

[Swizzle]

Well, my friend got 3200 resilience before even getting the "Cataclysmically Superior" achievement, so it's a bad measuring stick to use when talking about credibility (especially when an ability does 0 damage).

[rockmannx]

The best control in the game mixed with the best mobility of any ranged class and arguably the second best survivability of any caster class.

The problem with Frost atm is that it has no inherent weakness. Its insanely easy to keep multiple melee off of you, and because of how easy it is to get 1 of the 4 ice roots off, shatter combo's aren't nearly as hard to setup as they used to be. I'm talking BC here, where a shatter had to be planned out perfectly. A strong reason Rogues were/are a common teammate when mated with a Mage (stun control).

Its easy to get your burst off and its easy to stay mobile.

In any case, control needs to be lowered, drastically. With every expansion is just gets easier and easier to keep people off of you or keep them from doing anything. Wrath brought Shattered Barrier and Deep Freeze, and now they have perma water ele and RoF. It'd be one thing if setting up a shatter took some thought process. Now its basically just handed to the mage.

[drksilenc]

wow u got 3300 resil and you still miss a big glyph on the ground i guess it really is welfare gear... HOW can any NOT avoid it

[rockmannx]

wow u got 3300 resil and you still miss a big glyph on the ground i guess it really is welfare gear... HOW can any NOT avoid it

Cute, armoried to put down some smack talk.

Current Ret spec is something thrown together for a couple of heroics. Swapped only a few glyphs I felt were necessary.

Still, cute, the world is so black and white, no?

[taran111]

Mages need a dps buff? really? i dont understand this. My brother plays an arc mage and I play a feral druid and we both do about 19k spike with 14k sustained on a burn heroic boss like Uthok in TotT. And dont tell me its because he's skillfull, he pushes two buttons, not counting his CDs.

[Swizzle]

Mages need a dps buff? really? i dont understand this. My brother plays an arc mage and I play a feral druid and we both do about 19k spike with 14k sustained on a burn heroic boss like Uthok in TotT. And dont tell me its because he's skillfull, he pushes two buttons, not counting his CDs.

That's not good DPS, especially when it's in a 5 man where the fight is shorter than an Evoncation CD.

---------- Post added 2011-01-06 at 01:19 AM ----------

Cute, armoried to put down some smack talk.

Current Ret spec is something thrown together for a couple of heroics. Swapped only a few glyphs I felt were necessary.

Still, cute, the world is so black and white, no?

He was talking to the guy who said RoF was OP and using his 3200 resil to back up the claim. it's like going...Cyclone hits too hard on me and I have 4000 resil.

[Skarrd]

My priest has 3200 resil from nothing but offensive win trading TB. Resilience doesn't hold any significance skillwise or whatever atm.

As for mage control, perhaps it is a bit high, but at the same time I feel damage is a bit too ridiculous as well. Burst is incredibly high and healers just cant do much about it without ooming in 25 seconds even if they aren't CC'd. Teams without a high degree of control/peels are pretty worthless right now. I think a lot of classes need some burst reduction or healers need a better way to deal with it. Perhaps I'm just speaking from gimpo priest PoV and I'm off base, but my priest drops like a rock in 2's and my mage takes shits on kids.