Why hunters are still bad imo even after fox

[icegoddess]

Yes aside from the lack of dmg between bm and marks, and survival being the only viable spec i started leveling my hunter to figure out why hunters seem like the worst class in the game still. Others may say l2p HURRDURR but alas many people dont know how to play a hunter since the change...I am not the best hunter in the world, but i am certainly no huntard.

Thus comes to my main point, WHY DOES CORBA SHOT AND STEADY SHOT AND AIMED SHOT! GET pushed back with damaging attacks...when slam for warriors doesnt?

Both are physical attacks, cobra shot does indeed do nature damage but its a physical attack...If someone is indeed meleeing me though i will not be able to attack with cobra/steady/aimed, but ranged attacks, heroic throw, deadly throw, and quite possibly every other spell (frost bolt etc.. not sure havent tested yet) push back the casting...im pretty sure that you cant pummel a cobra/steady but comon how is it that it can be pushed back...

Take arena for instance, you are lets say, Hunter Hpally, Not the best of comps yes, and you are facing Rogue priest, again not the best comps atm, You decide to focus the priest but you cant generate much focus because you keep getting pushed back from the rogues auto attacks...Yes you will be generating focus from aspect of the fox, that is to say if you are in AotF.

if you dont believe me test it yourself.

Thoughts, comments, questions? i personally think its total bullshit...

[JShepherd87]

I haven't actually seen pushback brought up before, and I'm a regular on the hunter forums (shouldn't this be there btw?) I think you have a legit point, especially since the first few iteration of our specs included a 70% pushback reduction IIRC.

That being said, if you've got a rogue on you, even with another target to shoot at, pushback is still the least of your worries. The trouble is more our inability to get out of melee range and stay out... actually, there's lots and lots of different 'troubles' we're dealing with right now, including about 30 or so hunter specific bugs... forget who was keeping the list, otherwise I'd link. It's on the hunter forums somewhere.

But in your arena scenario, rogues and other melee classes have much more success staying on us than before, partly due to increased health pools. You can't kite forever, and if you try it means spreading your utilities out over a longer time-frame than before. But partly it's also due to more melee class gap closing abilities such as heroic leap. The upcoming 35 sec masters call is exactly what we need, I don't think it will solve all our problems, but it's targeting one of the right problems at least. Don't forget that using MC almost twice as often will make the MC glyph--already popular--almost twice as powerful.

and... i hesitate to bring this up, but the only way you could know about aimed shot's pushback problems is by using aimed shot... and the only way you could do that is by speccing MM. Don't do that. I won't defend Blizz for narrowing hunter's pvp options to one spec (arguably BM works, so 2), but we're getting patched, and additionally it's much to early in the expansion for gear to start scaling with MM. And even after the patch, Aimed shot should probably only be used with camo as an opener anyways.

My 2 cents.

[nyc81991]

i can't really comment on Pvp for hunters but in Pve SV is the top dps spec in the game right now.

[icegoddess]

I haven't actually seen pushback brought up before, and I'm a regular on the hunter forums (shouldn't this be there btw?) I think you have a legit point, especially since the first few iteration of our specs included a 70% pushback reduction IIRC.

That being said, if you've got a rogue on you, even with another target to shoot at, pushback is still the least of your worries. The trouble is more our inability to get out of melee range and stay out... actually, there's lots and lots of different 'troubles' we're dealing with right now, including about 30 or so hunter specific bugs... forget who was keeping the list, otherwise I'd link. It's on the hunter forums somewhere.

But in your arena scenario, rogues and other melee classes have much more success staying on us than before, partly due to increased health pools. You can't kite forever, and if you try it means spreading your utilities out over a longer time-frame than before. But partly it's also due to more melee class gap closing abilities such as heroic leap. The upcoming 35 sec masters call is exactly what we need, I don't think it will solve all our problems, but it's targeting one of the right problems at least. Don't forget that using MC almost twice as often will make the MC glyph--already popular--almost twice as powerful.

and... i hesitate to bring this up, but the only way you could know about aimed shot's pushback problems is by using aimed shot... and the only way you could do that is by speccing MM. Don't do that. I won't defend Blizz for narrowing hunter's pvp options to one spec (arguably BM works, so 2), but we're getting patched, and additionally it's much to early in the expansion for gear to start scaling with MM. And even after the patch, Aimed shot should probably only be used with camo as an opener anyways.

My 2 cents.

yes, but like i said, having cobra shot pushed back is just bull...thats pretty much my main point =/ i really feel for hunters atm, even though they really have never been a god like class, maybe in vanilla when you could aimed shot multi shot and arcane and someone was dead in 1 trap? but this is cata, the dmg def needs to be buffed and surv cant be the only viable spec its pretty shit

[The Doctor]

I thought the master's call buff that's coming up sounded kind of nice.

[icegoddess]

I thought the master's call buff that's coming up sounded kind of nice.

thats far from fixing the class, my hunter isnt even 85 yet, but atm i cant really find many hunters past 2k in arena, and all the ones that are, are survival, leaving just two specs in the dark. A 35 sec cd? is nice if thats what it is, but there def needs to be more done to the class atm...

[Dunee]

also u can get silenced thus making you unable to cast cobrashot (and other spells aswell)

[Deleted]

hunters are really cool as allways i am normaliy the top dps in any group and raid i join only dk can fight about the top with me so hunter dont sucks for pve hanvt really done much arana

[Elenion]

hunters are really cool as allways i am normaliy the top dps in any group and raid i join only dk can fight about the top with me so hunter dont sucks for pve hanvt really done much arana

You should actually spend extra 10 second reading rest of OP's post, this is CLEARLY about PvP.

[Deleted]

i can't really comment on Pvp for hunters but in Pve SV is the top dps spec in the game right now.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

[Koumaru]

also u can get silenced thus making you unable to cast cobrashot (and other spells aswell)

Silence doesn't disable Cobra Shot, but it does inexplicably disable Trap Launcher.

[XAmsterdamX]

The use of AotF is very limited. In PvE it's useful in boss fights where you have keep moving, but even there I often prefer using AotH and stopping to cast autoshot. As a result I have to interrupt my Cobra Shot now and then to avoid special attacks from bosses, but the extra autoshots make up for that. Constantly switching aspects mid-fight is awkward only messes up my rotation, so I don't try.

In PvP it's useful in high-speed BGs (e.g. Warsong Gulch), so you can keep running while doing significant damage. I don't think it's helpful when you're attacked by a melee class, because casting CS or SS in that case is impossible anyway (because for that you need to keep facing your enemy). But as OP said this is one of the main problems of a Hunter: when you run out of focus your kiting will be a lot less effective.

[Okard]

You very, very rarely need to use fox. Hunter as my main, I can personally say unless you are specifically kiting something and not worrying about dps, then you dont need it. Cobra shot is awesome. I mean, nature damage + a refresh of serpent sting, its like an upgraded steady shot. I never even use steady shot anymore cause there is no reason to. As far as pvp, youre a hunter. Your goal isnt to kill the other guy as much as its to cc your victims while everyone else takes them out. You can, but I really only recommend it if its one on one, or maybe one on two depending who youre fighting. For arena's, if youre talking about twos, we arent recommended. Its possible, but going to be harder than most teams to get used to. For threes and up, we do fine.

ps: this is minus BM. Never tried it in arena, could be different.

[icegoddess]

also u can get silenced thus making you unable to cast cobrashot (and other spells aswell)

LOL SRSLY ROFL? im being completely srs, you cant cast cobra shot while silenced? thats such bullshit

---------- Post added 2011-01-08 at 05:45 PM ----------

You very, very rarely need to use fox. Hunter as my main, I can personally say unless you are specifically kiting something and not worrying about dps, then you dont need it. Cobra shot is awesome. I mean, nature damage + a refresh of serpent sting, its like an upgraded steady shot. I never even use steady shot anymore cause there is no reason to. As far as pvp, youre a hunter. Your goal isnt to kill the other guy as much as its to cc your victims while everyone else takes them out. You can, but I really only recommend it if its one on one, or maybe one on two depending who youre fighting. For arena's, if youre talking about twos, we arent recommended. Its possible, but going to be harder than most teams to get used to. For threes and up, we do fine.

ps: this is minus BM. Never tried it in arena, could be different.

im pretty sure blizzard doesnt want a class not not be able to anything 1v1 or 2v2, lets say in 2's i guarentee that it isnt blizzard's intent to make hunter only supposed to kite/cc/be a scape goat in pvp

[Garam]

im pretty sure blizzard doesnt want a class not not be able to anything 1v1 or 2v2, lets say in 2's i guarentee that it isnt blizzard's intent to make hunter only supposed to kite/cc/be a scape goat in pvp

Actually.

Blizzard doesn't balance classes around 1v1 or 2v2. Hence the lack of title and rewards from that bracket.

[Numeanor]

The use of AotF is very limited. In PvE it's useful in boss fights where you have keep moving, but even there I often prefer using AotH and stopping to cast autoshot. As a result I have to interrupt my Cobra Shot now and then to avoid special attacks from bosses, but the extra autoshots make up for that. Constantly switching aspects mid-fight is awkward only messes up my rotation, so I don't try.

In PvP it's useful in high-speed BGs (e.g. Warsong Gulch), so you can keep running while doing significant damage. I don't think it's helpful when you're attacked by a melee class, because casting CS or SS in that case is impossible anyway (because for that you need to keep facing your enemy). But as OP said this is one of the main problems of a Hunter: when you run out of focus your kiting will be a lot less effective.

Ever heard of straffing? I know that hunter can shot at almost 150 degrees angle back... at elast mine can. Kiting with fox is not hard, hard is that every ability I use to get away they have another in sleeve to close the gap so I can't rly run away. But if they don't have it off CD I can kite them with fox aspect and firing cobra in running.

---------- Post added 2011-01-08 at 07:51 PM ----------

i can't really comment on Pvp for hunters but in Pve SV is the top dps spec in the game right now.

Wanna ask why is that? Coz of SV mastery! It scales pretty good! In PvE we can also stand still use hawk aspect and fire. While standing still we have max focus regen and also autoshots damage and if specced additional damage from sniper training. jeeez just read talents before writing here something like this...

[melodramocracy]

AotF is a nice idea, but in practice is a bit lacking. The fact that a class that already does rather unimpressive damage in PvP ends up giving away even MORE damage by using it makes it rarely a good option.

---------- Post added 2011-01-08 at 02:23 PM ----------

LOL SRSLY ROFL? im being completely srs, you cant cast cobra shot while silenced? thats such bullshit

I believe you also can't lay traps while silenced either.

[Yosef1015]

The 3 abilities you mentioned all need to be aimed to shoot hence the names, if you had a bow and were concentrating on aiming and got hit by something I'm pretty sure you would get messed up and take longer to shoot.

[icegoddess]

The 3 abilities you mentioned all need to be aimed to shoot hence the names, if you had a bow and were concentrating on aiming and got hit by something I'm pretty sure you would get messed up and take longer to shoot.

dont bring fucking logic into this...how about we are firing ammo that doesnt even exist in our bags anymore.../golfclap to you sir

---------- Post added 2011-01-08 at 07:32 PM ----------

AotF is a nice idea, but in practice is a bit lacking. The fact that a class that already does rather unimpressive damage in PvP ends up giving away even MORE damage by using it makes it rarely a good option.

---------- Post added 2011-01-08 at 02:23 PM ----------



I believe you also can't lay traps while silenced either.

its pretty funny that you cant trap while silenced either....i love how my warrior cant use thunderclap while silenced for tanking on my warrior...pretty bs imo...

---------- Post added 2011-01-08 at 07:35 PM ----------

The 3 abilities you mentioned all need to be aimed to shoot hence the names, if you had a bow and were concentrating on aiming and got hit by something I'm pretty sure you would get messed up and take longer to shoot.

also if you even read the original post, i talked about how a warriors slam, which is a casting melee attack doesnt get push back effects from taking dmg, according to your logic if i fucking stabbed him in the back he would prolly drop his damn mace and be on the ground...its a game, dont bring logic into games, it is just stupid

[Deleted]

The 3 abilities you mentioned all need to be aimed to shoot hence the names, if you had a bow and were concentrating on aiming and got hit by something I'm pretty sure you would get messed up and take longer to shoot.

Then explain, with logic, how firing a fire ball can be done at point blank but shooting a gun can't?