Feral PvP nerfs make kitty non-viable for PvE?

[Deleted]

As a non pvp'er I wasn't all that interested in the nerfs ragarding pvp (although any chance of me ever pvp'ing as a feral has been pretty much eradicated with the shifting nerf). However I found a link on the wow eu forums today which suggests that the bleed nerfs and buffs to shred leave us doing fairly uncompetitive damage in raids. Quite predictable really, a 10% nerf to bleeds and the buff to direct damage always sounded like it would be a dps decrease as bleeds aren't affected by armour not to mention our dps decrease when we aren't able to apply direct damage attacks. Sounds like Blizzards attempted change to keep dps around the same was done during a coffee meeting. This isn't a small nerf either, we've gone from being around the middle (except against nefarion XD) to the bottom of this list of theory crafting:

manoutoftime.org/misc/simc/ptr/raid/T11_372/basic.html

Ret Paladin isn't represented here and I'm not certain how reliable these stats are but if its right then it looks like feral is going to be exclusively a PvE tanking spec for a little while.

EDIT: Sorry I didn't link my link properly, not allowed to as its my first post :S

[Deleted]

Unless something has changed since the last set of PTR updates, theorycrafting suggested that the mangle/shred buffs would actually constitute a slight dps increase, even with 10% less bleed damage (no source, but I have seen Mihir mentioning it on the forums). Also, the site you linked seems to be in beta and hence might not support all specs fully.

[Lebored]

You're both exaggerating and correct.
The Bleed reduction is not made up for by the boost to Shred. Maybe it is on a test dummy but in a raid environment with movement, no.
But the next result is NOT making Feral "non-viable". Just lower on the pile.
Feral isn't brought only for Dps, so since it's not dead last on Dps and still has raid utility they are still viable.

The numbers just ideally need to be tweeked.

[Williee]

I can see the shred buff will account for an aggro issue when you berserk during the beginning of an encounter
But as mentioned above, the bleed nerf will only hurt on movement and air phased fights.
Must say if dps is an issue for your guild, boomkin might be the better choice because they dominate in multi target boss fights and they provide a much stronger innervate vs ferals

[Deleted]

You're both exaggerating and correct.
The Bleed reduction is not made up for by the boost to Shred. Maybe it is on a test dummy but in a raid environment with movement, no.
But the next result is NOT making Feral "non-viable". Just lower on the pile.
Feral isn't brought only for Dps, so since it's not dead last on Dps and still has raid utility they are still viable.

The numbers just ideally need to be tweeked.

The issue is much of that utility can done by other classes that can also provide greater dps. A raid with a Boomkin or resto druid has roots, stronger innervate and combat res already. In that case what utility/buffs can we provide? 10 second cd interrupt? Infected wounds? Leader of the pack? All these things can be provided by either certain tank builds or better dps specs. Sure we aren't bottom of the pile, ret probably is, but we're damn close. Lagging 8k dps behind a shadow preist is quite significant.

I'm not worried atm though, nothing is set in stone and this theory craft site is indeed only beta.

I can see the shred buff will account for an aggro issue when you berserk during the beginning of an encounter
But as mentioned above, the bleed nerf will only hurt on movement and air phased fights.
Must say if dps is an issue for your guild, boomkin might be the better choice because they dominate in multi target boss fights and they provide a much stronger innervate vs ferals

Well aggro issues are easily sorted on most fights, just wait to proc berserk. In a fight against maloriak normal for example you're only going to get 2 berserks max anyway so not much to worry about proc'ing it early. I agree that a boomkin would definately be more appropriate, better dps even on single targets. But thats an issue in general, ranged seems to have things so much better at the moment.

[littlepiggy]

As Alaitoc said, we are going to receive a slight dps increase and scale with gear better. The theorycrafting has been done and is quite accurate most of the time, otherwise it wouldn't be as trustworthy as it is. It's not perfect, but it's a very good gauge.

[Timmeh7]

Last run of the numbers I saw showed that the new iteration gave a tiny dps increase (only 20 or 30), but it's not a nerf. Losing the berserk fear immunity and rooting freedom may hurt in some PvE encounters to an extent, however.

[Kzasch]

If reducing feral damage in PvP means that they can no longer raid then so bet it. Have you _ever_ faced one of those overpowered kittys?

[Jon]

If reducing feral damage in PvP means that they can no longer raid then so bet it. Have you _ever_ faced one of those overpowered kittys?

Run away little troll.

PvE side of things should never suffer because of PvP.

[littlepiggy]

If reducing feral damage in PvP means that they can no longer raid then so bet it. Have you _ever_ faced one of those overpowered kittys?

1. Get resilience
2. Face feral and realize they are no where near OP
3. ???
4. Profit

Seriously, you obviously have no concept of PvP in this game and the 1200 brackets (assuming you've gotten that high) are treating you rough. Get 3k resilience and you'll see that kitties tickle, but remain at no resilience and just face the facts that any class can blow you up.

[Deleted]

1. Get resilience
2. Face feral and realize they are no where near OP
3. ???
4. Profit

Seriously, you obviously have no concept of PvP in this game and the 1200 brackets (assuming you've gotten that high) are treating you rough. Get 3k resilience and you'll see that kitties tickle, but remain at no resilience and just face the facts that any class can blow you up.

Absolutly this, he wins though, since ferals will be removed from pvp in next weeks patch.

[Shifthappens]

but back to PVE, Shred will be our #1 source of dmg next patch. so hit/exp maybe become more attractive, we'll see

[Razorlor]

1. Get resilience
2. Face feral and realize they are no where near OP
3. ???
4. Profit

Seriously, you obviously have no concept of PvP in this game and the 1200 brackets (assuming you've gotten that high) are treating you rough. Get 3k resilience and you'll see that kitties tickle, but remain at no resilience and just face the facts that any class can blow you up.

(from the perspective of someone at the 2500 level)
Ferals damage is not the issue. Their fucking mobility and control is, which will be fixed next patch.

They are losing shifting out of roots and instant cast roots.

[Supernex]

Ferals damage is not the issue.

Their fucking mobility and control is, which will be fixed next patch.

They are losing shifting out of roots and instant cast roots.

Oh yeah, that's why Feral Druids have been seen so often at the top all these seasons...oh wait.

[Razorlor]

Oh yeah, that's why Feral Druids have been seen so often at the top all these seasons...oh wait.

Their damage appears high because they cannot be peeled, so they never stop hitting.

At least attempt to bring some intelligence, thank you.

[Blackfoo]

Just messing around on the ptr bleeds are still my top damage but shred is secound on damage above rake but not by much we will lose alot on bosses that we have to face mangle just doesnt hit hard enough to make up for that loss damage from bleeds but other than that dps is just above where it is on live