Why Nationalism?

[Zecora]

Nationalism doesn't need to equal "screw all you outsiders". It can be a wish to maintain the right of self-determination, a wish to maintain your traditions and ways in the face of a wave of global culture. You can be a "nationalist" in the sense of wanting to maintain these things, but still support greater global cooperation on important issues.

As for "the world under one banner" I doubt we'll see it anytime soon. Moreover, I hope we won't. The larger a nation becomes, the more complicated it becomes to manage well, and the more bureocracy you get, until the point where everything becomes so tied down in red tape that decisions are sent on endless hearings without any result. Any world government would have to work on the macro-scale only, dealing with issues that are global and leaving a lot of the decision-making to individual states, to ensure a somewhat fair chance for actual democracy.

[mftaylordet]

I would then counter by saying the US has it figured out pretty well, with every state being able to have their own way of doing things (that are more suited for their climate/region) while still governed by a larger...well...government.

The US system has its own problems too. Of course there was the American Civil War; it ended over 100 years ago, but the cultural divide still dominates our politics. Even today the motto "too much (federal) government" is popular in places that once made up the Confederacy. Paradoxically, people from those states that seceded from the US in the 1860s are often the most nationalistic in support of the US versus other countries.

[kailtas]

Well personaly i dont want Norway to enter EU membership because how i feel about democracy. To be honest i dont like the leaders of the other countries in Europe (Some of them are good). And i dont want them to even have the slightest official influence on what i do.

Its also a sense of identity and history. I love my brothers of the Nordic countries ( Åland, Denmark, Faroe Islands, Finland, Greenland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden). And i would gladly accept a union with them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_Union).

[Hraklea]

...and the quality of the product is generally good...

I'll just quote Milton Friedman:

"There are four ways in which you can spend money.
You can spend your own money on yourself. When you do that, why then you really watch out what you’re doing, and you try to get the most for your money.
Then you can spend your own money on somebody else. For example, I buy a birthday present for someone. Well, then I’m not so careful about the content of the present, but I’m very careful about the cost.
Then, I can spend somebody else’s money on myself. And if I spend somebody else’s money on myself, then I’m sure going to have a good lunch!
Finally, I can spend somebody else’s money on somebody else. And if I spend somebody else’s money on somebody else, I’m not concerned about how much it is, and I’m not concerned about what I get.
And that’s government."

Human health should not have a price tag.

And I should be dating Demi Lovato, but sadly, the world isn't perfect. Again, the results are more important than the intentions.

[I stand in fire]

I don't know, I was raised up to take pride in my country. Even though there are times where I wish I can move somewhere else when the idiots in congress are acting especially retarded. However, when I think about what country to move to, I find everyone else is crap compared the United States (that's just MY opinion, so don't get your undies in a bunch). The US is far from prefect, but it's home.

[Mister K]

People need to stop fighting and respect each other because when that day comes Human race will advance.



He mainly talks about energy and power but there are more then those two topics to it.

[Badpaladin]

Just a nice, friendly reminder that it's okay if you think your country is the best, but it's not okay to belittle other people because you think your country is the best. I haven't seen page after page of flaming, so keep up the good posting.

[Bearshield]

I think the idea of all nations merging under one banner is completely impossible and impractical. There are far too many cultural differences between our nations for us to all come together as one. Not to mention, just looking at our country you can see that having too many people under the control of one government, someone/something always gets left out. Prime example, illegal immigration is a HUGE problem in our country. The government has failed to take action for far too long so individual states have attempted to handle themselves. Unfortunately, when individual states try to look out for themselves THEN the government gets involved and shoots the whole thing down. Thus huge problems affecting certain areas of the country go overlooked. Imagine adding 15-30 more countries to that one government that can't even handle the needs/issues of 50 states and you get a small idea of why this would be a very bad thing.

I don't know a whole lot about the EU, but I can't for the life of me understand why you would want to be a part of it. The way I see it, the EU is like a Homeowner's Association here. Some of you are in countries whose governments chosen to belong. The EU itself and most of its member countries have no vested interest in your country, but your country is forced to abide by its rules or pay the consequences.

I fully agree with the idea behind the united nations. Allies are always a good thing, especially to smaller countries. I don't agree with the idea of a small group of people with no vested interest in a country, dictating the laws and policies for that nation.

[Torian101]

I think the idea of all nations merging under one banner is completely impossible and impractical. There are far too many cultural differences between our nations for us to all come together as one. Not to mention, just looking at our country you can see that having too many people under the control of one government, someone/something always gets left out. Prime example, illegal immigration is a HUGE problem in our country. The government has failed to take action for far too long so individual states have attempted to handle themselves. Unfortunately, when individual states try to look out for themselves THEN the government gets involved and shoots the whole thing down. Thus huge problems affecting certain areas of the country go overlooked. Imagine adding 15-30 more countries to that one government that can't even handle the needs/issues of 50 states and you get a small idea of why this would be a very bad thing.

I don't know a whole lot about the EU, but I can't for the life of me understand why you would want to be a part of it. The way I see it, the EU is like a Homeowner's Association here. Some of you are in countries whose governments chosen to belong. The EU itself and most of its member countries have no vested interest in your country, but your country is forced to abide by its rules or pay the consequences.

I fully agree with the idea behind the united nations. Allies are always a good thing, especially to smaller countries. I don't agree with the idea of a small group of people with no vested interest in a country, dictating the laws and policies for that nation.

Would you agree with me if I said that abandoning nationalism would make it possible for nations to take an interest in nations other then their own?
In my opinion, the only thing holding us Europeans back from making the EU a succes story is nationalism and the decisions people make out of that concept.

[Bearshield]

I think what you're asking is impossible though. Why would everyone forsake their country to form one big super country? Especially in Europe? Look at how many European countries have only within the last few hundred years gained their independance from another country? Do you really think those countries want to give up that independance only to go to a system where they may very well get lost in the shuffle?

[LonestarHero]

I'm a United States citizen.

I support nationalism over globalism because I'm closer to my leaders and that theoretically makes them more accountable.

[Tuvok]

I really don't get nationalism and patriotism. I don't get how people can claim to be proud of something they've contributed nothing towards. You just happened to be born in a certain country, by chance - and you're most likely not one of the people who have greatly contributed to the success of your country through invention, innovation, or any kind of improvement to your country's society.

Not only that, but who that is a patriot has actually objectively came to the conclusion that their country is the best? Have they travelled the world and lived in other countries and seen first hand? Of course not, it all seems so blind and biased to me, and as such, completely and utterly useless. Not only that but nationalism can lead to xenophobia, or at least a damaging view of other countries. Sure, you can love your home ground and enjoy it, but I don't get where all the pride comes from.

[Deleted]

The 1 issue you have not mentioned wether it be the EU or UE is that you will always get some in controll, where the power goes to their head. They will either make them selves loads of money ( Tony Blair PM Cheryl Blair top humans right laywer --- how many times she sue the country making money through his loopholes). Or there will be a dictator, who will rule with an iron fist.
look at the EU atm..... not 1 EMP has to submitt reciepts for any expense claims!!!! Talk about milking a system there. Also no EMP in the UK are elected by the people, whether thats the same else where I don't know, but to have an unelected body making decission that effect me I dont agree with.
Unless there is a way to rid the human population of the want for power / money a united world will never happen.

As to religion everyone thinks theirs is the best( good for you), but along with that they then try to force that religions belifes on others, and their laws. Untill all religous leaders can agree to disagree as to who's best and laws that match for all again none of this will be possible.

Also as someone pointed out humans are pack animals we must stay in a selected pack, there for even if united under 1 banner would still need to have a seperate identity. Football in alot of countries has that effect.

If all where to be united under 1 banner you would loose icons like The Ryder Cup, The World Cup, The Olympics, The Commonwealth Games, The Island Games, The Admrils Cup.

[Zecora]

Its also a sense of identity and history. I love my brothers of the Nordic countries ( Åland, Denmark, Faroe Islands, Finland, Greenland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden). And i would gladly accept a union with them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_Union).

Now, THAT is something I could support...

[Raleik]

If you're really interested in learning more about the reasons why populations have a tendency towards nationalism, I'd suggest reading Imagined Communities by Benedict Anderson. It is an extraordinarily interesting book. He delves into a number of nations backgrounds and histories to examine what exactly caused the rise of nationalism in them, and how they went about identifying themselves as a nation.

[Sunseeker]

The short answer is that being united under one banner isn't the issue. The problem is losing the cultural aspects that make you and your nation unique from the rest.

It's part of my ongoing complaint about cosmopolitanism, taking bits and pieces from many cultures does not make you better able to understand those cultures. In general, it means you generalize and bastardize a beautiful culture in the name of making yourself look better.

The EU is an incredibly corrupt, top-down organization. While the traditional powers in Europe, mainly England and France, have much to grain through joining the EU, many more European nations have a great deal to lose. With the German economy being one of the few in Europe to run in the green on a regular basis, Germany ends up becoming the primary source of funding for the EU. While smaller EU nations are forced to sacrifice their own self-governance, something they only have barely established since the fall of the USSR, to another "power" that is working to establish itsself as a credible force in the world.

Nations struggled for centuries and more to establish themselves as sovereign nations, they should not so quickly relinquish it, especially to something as poorly imagined as the EU.

As for patriotism vs nationalism, any nation can have patriots and nationalists, and sometimes they share the same ideas and sometimes they don't. Almost every American considered themselves a patriot, though few agree on what makes a person patriotic. However, only a handful of them are nationalists.

[Catta]

Incorrect, Patriotism is being brainwashed into believing all bullshit that *insert country name* has always fought on the side of right! has always defended the weak etc etc. Where in reality each and every country has tried to dominate others when it has had the chance.

It is a known quoute and no all countries hasnt done that... Think of Greenland

[Kalyyn]

It is a known quoute and no all countries hasnt done that... Think of Greenland

They would if they could.

[Catta]

They would if they could.

and i would fly if i could, doesnt matter

[Sunseeker]

and i would fly if i could, doesnt matter

Irrelevant claim is irrelevant. Nations with power will attempt to use it to control others. These nations could be big, they could be small. The only reason Greenland doesn't do it is because they have no power.

England did it, Denmark did it, Sweden did it, Prussia, Russia, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, China, Japan, the USA. They've all done it, they all do it.