Incoming Healer Changes

[Kenai]

I am not taking the accomplishments away from your shamans..not at all but if you are struggling to outheal them than I would suggest reading ej forums to see what you are doing wrong.

1. are you in comprable gear?

2. are you gemmed and enchanted correctly?

3. if the above are both yes..then your playstyle comes into question. There is no encounter besides maybe chim where resto shamans should even be mentioned.

You're asking people to provide proof to back up their claims and not crappy antedoctal evidence? That's not fair!

[Chucknourishh]

i dont see the problem, pallies are kicking ass atm!

pallies ar epretty op atm but i dont seem to have problems giving them a run for a money on my druid

[Shinayne]

Resto Shaman in Paragon (and the other bleeding edge Guilds) were there only as mana battery (Mana Tide Totem) bots.
The only reason people let resto shamans into raids was purely a human factor, and we need to thank our friends as they let us raid in our crippled state.

Because 99% of WoW raids at that level.

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, people's gear and skill level play much more of a role than class limitations. I would say my guild is about average, we're not hardcore 5 nights a week but at the same time we're not casual. We have two 10 mans. One has a holy priest and a pally as heals and they struggle and struggle on fights. The other team has a resto shammy and druid as heals. Now, a lot of things can factor into this, like group 1 having fewer competent DPS, but I know from speaking with people in group 1 that the heals are the primary problem. Meanwhile group 2 is about to start hard modes. Again, we're hardly Paragon, but that's just my point--the vast majority of guilds are not raiding at the bleeding edge level where class comp matters because everyone is at the top of their game. If you're an excellent resto shaman, your friends will want to bring you over a holy priest that doesn't know wtf they're doing and has stam gems. Knowing your class has infinitely more effect on this than the minutiae of class limitations that only really become apparent in bleeding edge content.

That's not to say that resto shamans don't need love (they do), I'm just sick and damn tired of hearing bad players blame their failure on limitations of class design, pointing to guilds they would never get past the app process for as proof of why their class is broken and needs buffs. It's not just healers, you see DPS pulling this crap all the time too. Some melee DPS in a guild that can't down the Baradin Hold boss without wiping 10 times crying on the forums about how his/her class needs buffs or X class needs nerfs because Paragon is stacking ranged on some heroic encounter they will never see outside of YouTube. For extra fail they link stateofdps in their QQ post. Makes me want to punt gnomes into woodchippers.

[Sidone]

Wasn't better to introduce a cap at number of target that can be shielded at the same time?

I agree to this.

[taymatt]

Right now I'm laughing at the people who said "resto shaman is fine L2P".

I know right?

[timbaLt]

The Shaman buff to HPS was too much while ignoring the main problem for shamans right now, which was and still is -MANA-.

Pre-hotfix on our Nefarian attempts (10m) our shaman was keeping about equal with our holy paladin in terms of raw HPS, with me staying a bit ahead of both of them on my Druid.

Post-hotfix he was absolutely blowing us out of the water, pulling 11k+ HPS on every pull.

Seems kind of stupid to me, maybe shamans like it, but it doesn't address their real issues.

[Revelations]

The Shaman buff to HPS was too much while ignoring the main problem for shamans right now, which was and still is -MANA-.

Roll Telluric currents then, or something..

I haven't had a mana problem since I healed my first heroic in Cataclysm.. That being said, if you're talking about a fight like.. Magmaw heroic 25 man, then maybeeeee~

The +hps buff we just got was exactly what we needed.

[taymatt]

"I'm in a top guild on my realm, and the 3 resto shamans are kicking out 18/20k hps"=Lie

Thank you for this, and for going to world of logs and demonstrating the person is lying. I can't believe that STILL, after blizzard finally acknowledged Shamans had been far behind the other healing classes, we get people in here telling stupid, false anecdotes.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

resto shaman MP5 regen will go up with more haste wont it? so maybe in next tier they will be ok, that being said there's so many "temporary" fixes they could do to lots of classes. For instance ret paladins could get a shorter CD on Crusader strike, Disc Priests could get a cap on how many shields can be active at a time, Resto druids Nourish could heal 10% more per hot on the target (from what it's now) and so on. I pretty sure all the "slow" and "underpowered" specs will be one of the better once haste scaling kicks in in later raids, question remains. Will blizzard fix some specs before that time?

just for fun i checked Retri dps on world of logs. best dps in 25man halfus HC was at 600something place and he was alone among the ret paladins at 69k dps. top dps was a fire mage at 130k dps followed by another fire mage dps at 110k. I do realize that fire mages do well on this fight and i checked the first real comparable to retpaladins and they were all at 90k-ish. MM hunters im talking about. And yes i checked dps during and after the drakes died so no real AOE was blowing numbers.

[timbaLt]

The +hps buff we just got was exactly what we needed.

So shamans should have gone from ~300 less HPS than other classes to 2000 more? Seems dumb to me.

[Radikaal]

timaLt you don't know what you are talking about - main problem mana? 300hp less behind other classes?? 2000hps more now, lol? We are still not even going to be the strongest HPS class.

Either you are in a guild where your shaman is purely raid healing and spamming everything he got and the other classes are either bad geared, or playing incorrect. Correctly the shamans HPS were on average about 15-20% below the other classes (in overall, not in specific cases, im sure some guilds might have resto shamans as top healers, but in 95% of the guilds that are good (atleast cleared normal and trying to progress trough hc content they were far behind, even after 3.0.6).

Mana wise, shamans are about equal to the other healers, a bit worse ofcourse because our HPS was lacking so we needed to use more mana to keep up with intense fights. Hopefully this will be fixed now.

Just listen to the people that posted the logs from top guilds, that PROVE that shamans, the really good shamans were way behind the good priests and paladins in equal gear. This is a fact.

Question we all shamans wonder about:

Has this gone live, or when is it going to go live? Would be great if someone could answer this, have looke trough the forums and checked around on my server but havent been able to get any real answer to this. Most say the changes have gone live (those who are non shamans) because some priests are noticing more mana used on shields. Some shamans are reporting GHW healing for more, im not one of them thought. Im 95% sure my healing is the same as a few days ago, my riptide always healed for around 1700 ticks, it now heals for 1750 now, my healing wave still for low average of 7100 on targets beside myself with no earthshield buff, and without any totem or other buff at all.

But i could be wrong ofcourse, anyone noticed difference yet?

[Revelations]

So shamans should have gone from ~300 less HPS than other classes to 2000 more? Seems dumb to me.

Edited as I have no idea what you are saying.

Shamans pre patch: 1.5k hps less

Shamans post patch: Weeee balanced

[Dorfadin]

No buff for resto druids for another 3/4 months then I guess..., thank god Rift is here

[BWight]

There is no encounter besides maybe chim where resto shamans should even be mentioned.

This comment says for itself. Yeah it is anecdotal. How do these ppl even know these 2 letters: EJ

The Shaman buff to HPS was too much while ignoring the main problem for shamans right now, which was and still is -MANA-.
Pre-hotfix on our Nefarian attempts (10m) our shaman was keeping about equal with our holy paladin in terms of raw HPS, with me staying a bit ahead of both of them on my Druid.
Post-hotfix he was absolutely blowing us out of the water, pulling 11k+ HPS on every pull.

Mana was never a problem, if played right. No offence but its the other healer's failing issue, it is not shaman being OP. Look into what goes terribly wrong with their healing.
Being paired with 2 other good healers of any class was absolutely terrible from shaman POV, it was felt like you've been carried; they have been kicking out 20% more then you on average. However being paired with 2 other terribad healers of any class was not any better by obvious reasons; and overtopping the heal meter was a very poor consolation

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, people's gear and skill level play much more of a role than class limitations.

To put it simple, bringing a shaman into raid was equal to bringing any other healer in greens/ 333 blues
Ofc skill matters and some people can down the bosses in greens and there are numeriouss examples and achievements of this sort
But back to earth, if it was enough to go through normal content with a help of good buddies, it was fricking far from being enough in heroic.

skill level play much more of a role than class limitations. <..>I'm just sick and damn tired of hearing bad players blame their failure on limitations of class design, pointing to guilds they would never get past the app process for as proof of why their class is broken and needs buffs.

Now let your skill level play much more of a role

[Deleted]

3 cheers for blizzard...

[smallfish]

Its about time. Even the best Shaman's have been behind other healers for a while.

[maliizz]

Mana is very dependent on the other 2 classes of healers you bring. Bringing a resto druid and a holy pally would probably cause me to have my mana pool a bit lower. While say with a priest we can time hymn of hope with mana tide, which can be very very effective in mana restoration.

"Mana was never a problem, if played right. No offence but its the other healer's failing issue, it is not shaman being OP. Look into what goes terribly wrong with their healing.
Being paired with 2 other good healers of any class was absolutely terrible from shaman POV, it was felt like you've been carried; they have been kicking out 20% more then you on average. However being paired with 2 other terribad healers of any class was not any better by obvious reasons; and overtopping the heal meter was a very poor consolation "

^So much this. If you are in any decent sort of guild there is more than likely 2 decent non shaman healers who simply make you feel like you are being carried.

Many people are not in those "bleeding edge" guilds but it does give light that at the pinnacle of gameplay , a problem exists where poor skill is not a factor.

[Shamonyou]

I think its funny how the top healers are complaining they need buffs. Shammy healers were never #1 till a week before cata then we dropped to the bottom. The only thing we were good for was heroism, which more people have now, and totems. When we can throw our biggest heal and barely see the tanks health bar move, or when we can go oom on trash, we need a buff.

[Dernel]

The Disc shall rise again! You can nerf our bubbles, you can drain our mana, you can kill our PvP but you'll never take our.. uh... wait... wait, I'll think of something...

Hehe, we're still the most mana inefficient.

[Deleted]

I am happy resto shamans are getting better, but now resto shamans wil be very op again... im playing as a resto shaman myself but even if i heal with ppl same or higher geared then me i can stil keep up with the healing and sometimes even do more healing then they do... without having to burst my mana. I think people have been to critical on resto shamans and just had to get used of it because they did change alot since wotlk :3 Anyway i quess we can enjoy until the patch after this one ^^