Masters Call Dispel is BS

[Dugaan]

Ok so maybe there is already a post on this but if so I did not see it. So blizzard decides to answer our mobility issue by giving a reduced cooldown of Masters Call which was definitely needed. They then felt it was too short and decided to increase it by 10 seconds, whether or not this was necessary is debatable but I'm not going to complain. However what I do have a problem with was along with the change to 45 seconds they made it dispelable. This is like making sprint or dash dispelable as it is our best mobility move atm. Even worse is the fact that it allows mages to steal it from us. Any frost mage with half a brain only needs to steal it once we use it and then we cannot gain any seperation against them as they are now immune to snares and all slows. They then can just hump the shit out of us while waiting for their CDs on nova and pet freeze to come through and then we get chain frozen while being unable to attack. Now this isn't supposed to be about how OP spell steal is (/thread x 1000) but how reducing the cooldown by only 20 seconds and allowing it to be dispelled might make masters call worse off than it ever was when I knew i was guaranteed 8 seconds (glyphed because I'm not dumb) of separation.

[bamfrosty]

If it's dispellable, at least give it the Hand of Freedom CD. 45 seconds is complete BS in it's current state.

[Saverem]

If it's dispellable, at least give it the Hand of Freedom CD. 45 seconds is complete BS in it's current state.

You guys are comparing apples with oranges. Rets don't have ranged attacks, disengage, Conc. shot, traps, scatter shot, pet root/snare, and tons of snares to keep their opponents kited.

Rets have HoF and a crappy pursuit of justice.

Stop comparing Hunters, a class with one of the best mobilities in the game with a class that has the shittiest mobility in the game.

And yes, Master's Call needed a nerf. And even with this nerf, it's still tons better than it was during Wrath.

[Shinshiva]

i play a hunter and yer it needed a nerf. you're not meant to be able to get away every single time. that's is OP. that's what you want. you want to not die. which is just stupid.

[Dugaan]

You guys are comparing apples with oranges. Rets don't have ranged attacks, disengage, Conc. shot, traps, scatter shot, pet root/snare, and tons of snares to keep their opponents kited.

Rets have HoF and a crappy pursuit of justice.

Stop comparing Hunters, a class with one of the best mobilities in the game with a class that has the shittiest mobility in the game.

And yes, Master's Call needed a nerf. And even with this nerf, it's still tons better than it was during Wrath.

As the original poster I never compared MC to HoF. Your the one comparing apples to oranges talking about all kinds of Ret abilities in a hunter forum so stop trolling.

---------- Post added 2011-02-15 at 06:48 PM ----------

i play a hunter and yer it needed a nerf. you're not meant to be able to get away every single time. that's is OP. that's what you want. you want to not die. which is just stupid.

It is not guaranteed to work everytime even if it is not able to be dispelled. You can still be stunned, feared, mind controlled, trapped, etc. The point is it should not be dispelled since other classes dont have their gap closers or seperations as dispellable.

[Rukah]

for MC to be undispellable makes it OP as fuck.

As a genuine question, how many melee classes have an offensive dispell? Or are people just complaining because they read the phrase "no longer dispellable"?

Me personally. I get the best effect from using MC and running straight over an AoE slowing patch on the ground. I don't use it to kite a player for the next 3 years, in saying that, by the time I get over my AoE slowing trap, it's about 2 seconds, and I would be suprised if anyone dispelled it that quick anyways

---------- Post added 2011-02-16 at 11:38 AM ----------

As the original poster I never compared MC to HoF. Your the one comparing apples to oranges talking about all kinds of Ret abilities in a hunter forum so stop trolling.

yeah, nah he isn't trolling ./facepalm - he actually has a valid point.

[Frazzle.d]

You guys are comparing apples with oranges. Rets don't have ranged attacks, disengage, Conc. shot, traps, scatter shot, pet root/snare, and tons of snares to keep their opponents kited.

Rets have HoF and a crappy pursuit of justice.

Stop comparing Hunters, a class with one of the best mobilities in the game with a class that has the shittiest mobility in the game.

And yes, Master's Call needed a nerf. And even with this nerf, it's still tons better than it was during Wrath.

It's still quite useful, but I would be less fussed about the nerf if the Traps were fixed so that they benefitted from Spell Penetration, and from what I heard Entrapment (Surv tree) will be getting DR nerf that will be longer than the Trap cooldowns. Rets should use their magical resistance aura and laugh it up and switch to Rettribution aura when they're mezzed and see some shots coming from a kiting hunter in AotC. :P

Just make my magical traps benefit from the necessary stat and I'll be a happy bunny (:

[kunn]

You guys are comparing apples with oranges. Rets don't have ranged attacks, disengage, Conc. shot, traps, scatter shot, pet root/snare, and tons of snares to keep their opponents kited.
Rets have HoF and a crappy pursuit of justice.
Stop comparing Hunters, a class with one of the best mobilities in the game with a class that has the shittiest mobility in the game.
And yes, Master's Call needed a nerf. And even with this nerf, it's still tons better than it was during Wrath.

Sorry for the OT:

Hunters are far from a class with the best mobilities in game, just take a fury warrior here, with 2x intercept+heroic leap. Or a dk who cant be slowed more than 25%. Sub rogues are way better. Ferals, even post-nerf are better. Hunters are in the middle of the pack. And ive sayd it countless times -
please, tell one cc/slow that hunters can do the best. That has no analog for other classes that can do the exact same thing, but better. Oh and look at the quote, after telling about every snare beside the snake trap, you tell hunters still have "tons" of more snares?

Rets have repet, stun, not only hof+pursuit. If you call out all hunter cc, then do it for ret aswell. This is kinda common lately sadly. People whine about another class, telling how supposedly op it is, while theyr class is doing soo bad, and only has one or 2 abilities to use.
Is common sense really gone, and are only whiners left here


But on topic, im totally ok with it beeing dispellable. But not spellstealable, thats just complete bs.
And id love if they would have done it better. Patch notes were-> cooldown down to 35 sek. and then they "hotfixed" it to 45+ dispellable.
While in reality, it was 45 sec+ dispellable from the patch. And i mind you, its physical ability! like the tooltip says.

It really looks, they were just too lazy to give it a icon(that was stated in patchnotes aswell, it gets a new aura), and gave it HoF code,
so it became magic suddenly with HoFs aura icon aswell. When they realized it is magic now, they just told its a "hotfix".

This kind of behaiviour makes me sad. I dont really like dev's like this.
Even if this is not the case, fact is, MC was 45 sec and dispellable since 4.06, not the "hotfix" ..so
why couldnt they just sayd it in patchnotes? instead of the 35sec fuzz that never happened.

[WillFeral]

Good news is most players too dumb to even dispel which leaves a very very small % of players that would take advantage of removing this to take you down,so look at it the other way around:Chances are most of the time this ability will help you and you cant really factor mages into this because no matter what class you play a mage is gonna slow you and lolicelance you to death.Against all the other classes MC is borderline op.

[XAmsterdamX]

I'm fine with MC being dispelled; I normally just need the 1-2 seconds to get away from my opponent. What annoys me much more is that I need to wait for my pet to come over; why not make it a 'ranged' ability?

[Rahzael]

Rets have repet, stun, not only hof+pursuit. If you call out all hunter cc, then do it for ret aswell. This is kinda common lately sadly. People whine about another class, telling how supposedly op it is, while theyr class is doing soo bad, and only has one or 2 abilities to use.

Allow me.

Hunter - Scatter shot(30 seconds), Frost Trap/Ice Trap(30 seconds), Concussive Shot(5 seconds. Has dead zone.), Disengage(20 seconds), Deterrence(2 minutes), Feign Death(25 seconds), Aspect of the Fox, Aspect of the Cheetah(for use when your only target is CC'd), Master's Call(45 second cooldown).

Marksman only: Concussive Barrage(10/9 second cooldown. Has dead zone.), Posthaste(attached to disengage), Readiness(resetting ALL hunter-only cooldowns)

Survival only: Wyvern Sting(1 minute cooldown. Has dead zone.), Trap Mastery(increasing trap effectiveness), Resourcefulness(knocking trap cooldowns to 24 seconds), Entrapment(trap cooldown), Survival Tactics(knocking disengage cooldown to 16 seconds), Counterattack(5 second cooldown following a parry. Currently an unwise talent choice).



Paladin - Hammer of Justice(1 minute), Hand of Freedom(25 seconds), Divine Shield(5 minute cooldown), Seal of Justice(currently an unwise choice of seal)

Retribution - Repentance(1 minute cooldown), Pursuit of Justice, Long Arm of the Law(8 seconds. Has dead zone.), Guardian's Favor(knocks Hand of Freedom down to 21 seconds. Possibly an unwise talent choice depending on composition), Acts of Sacrifice[primary effect](Lowers HoF cooldown by 10/20%. Placing two points into this is an unwise talent choice.), Acts of Sacrifice[secondary effect], Improved Hammer of Justice(lowers HoJ cooldown to 40 seconds. Currently an unwise talent choice)

Several of the ret talents listed can only be afforded one point, or none at all due to more pressing talents that must be purchased in order to increase survivability or damage output to the point of worth, and a seal that sacrifices a very good bit of damage output in order to use(and in the process is not even a proper snare, but only limits movement speed. Whether or not you think hunters are good in PvP is beside the point, but to suggest their mobility is poor is rather silly, especially if you're going to bring up retribution Paladins.

(Also, yes, glyphed cooldown times are posted for disengage and feign death. Glyphs which every hunter should have. There are no such glyphs for Paladins at the moment.)

[Dugaan]

Allow me.

Hunter - Scatter shot(30 seconds), Frost Trap/Ice Trap(30 seconds), Concussive Shot(5 seconds. Has dead zone.), Disengage(20 seconds), Deterrence(2 minutes), Feign Death(25 seconds), Aspect of the Fox, Aspect of the Cheetah(for use when your only target is CC'd), Master's Call(45 second cooldown).

Marksman only: Concussive Barrage(10/9 second cooldown. Has dead zone.), Posthaste(attached to disengage), Readiness(resetting ALL hunter-only cooldowns)

Survival only: Wyvern Sting(1 minute cooldown. Has dead zone.), Trap Mastery(increasing trap effectiveness), Resourcefulness(knocking trap cooldowns to 24 seconds), Entrapment(trap cooldown), Survival Tactics(knocking disengage cooldown to 16 seconds), Counterattack(5 second cooldown following a parry. Currently an unwise talent choice).



Paladin - Hammer of Justice(1 minute), Hand of Freedom(25 seconds), Divine Shield(5 minute cooldown), Seal of Justice(currently an unwise choice of seal)

Retribution - Repentance(1 minute cooldown), Pursuit of Justice, Long Arm of the Law(8 seconds. Has dead zone.), Guardian's Favor(knocks Hand of Freedom down to 21 seconds. Possibly an unwise talent choice depending on composition), Acts of Sacrifice[primary effect](Lowers HoF cooldown by 10/20%. Placing two points into this is an unwise talent choice.), Acts of Sacrifice[secondary effect], Improved Hammer of Justice(lowers HoJ cooldown to 40 seconds. Currently an unwise talent choice)

Several of the ret talents listed can only be afforded one point, or none at all due to more pressing talents that must be purchased in order to increase survivability or damage output to the point of worth, and a seal that sacrifices a very good bit of damage output in order to use(and in the process is not even a proper snare, but only limits movement speed. Whether or not you think hunters are good in PvP is beside the point, but to suggest their mobility is poor is rather silly, especially if you're going to bring up retribution Paladins.

(Also, yes, glyphed cooldown times are posted for disengage and feign death. Glyphs which every hunter should have. There are no such glyphs for Paladins at the moment.)

how is feign death even included in this conversation considering all it does against a Ret Pally is drop target which has no effect since you have no casts. Seriously stop comparing ret abilities to hunter abilities on this post. This is a post about Masters Call on a HUNTER forum discussing the change made in this patch. You dont see any hunters here saying OMG WHEN I USE RAPID FIRE I SHOULD BE ABLE TO CAST KILL SHOT THE HUNTER EQUIVALENT OF HAMMER OR WRATH BECAUSE PALADINS CAN DO THAT WHEN THEY POP WINGS.just stop being ignorant and take it elsewhere. You didnt say one thing that has to do with the OP.

[Dugaan]

But on topic, im totally ok with it beeing dispellable. But not spellstealable, thats just complete bs.
And id love if they would have done it better. Patch notes were-> cooldown down to 35 sek. and then they "hotfixed" it to 45+ dispellable.
While in reality, it was 45 sec+ dispellable from the patch. And i mind you, its physical ability! like the tooltip says.

It really looks, they were just too lazy to give it a icon(that was stated in patchnotes aswell, it gets a new aura), and gave it HoF code,
so it became magic suddenly with HoFs aura icon aswell. When they realized it is magic now, they just told its a "hotfix".

This kind of behaiviour makes me sad. I dont really like dev's like this.
Even if this is not the case, fact is, MC was 45 sec and dispellable since 4.06, not the "hotfix" ..so
why couldnt they just sayd it in patchnotes? instead of the 35sec fuzz that never happened.

Thank you for some of this constructive info as I did not know these were hidden aspects not mentioned in Blue Posts. I would have really appreciated in Blizzard correctly pointed this out to begin with. Also, I am starting to notice it is not getting dispelled as much by those capable save for enhance shamans and mages spell stealing. I ultimately feel as though I can live with it being dispellable if they take away the spellsteal.

[Saverem]

how is feign death even included in this conversation considering all it does against a Ret Pally is drop target which has no effect since you have no casts. Seriously stop comparing ret abilities to hunter abilities on this post. This is a post about Masters Call on a HUNTER forum discussing the change made in this patch. You dont see any hunters here saying OMG WHEN I USE RAPID FIRE I SHOULD BE ABLE TO CAST KILL SHOT THE HUNTER EQUIVALENT OF HAMMER OR WRATH BECAUSE PALADINS CAN DO THAT WHEN THEY POP WINGS.just stop being ignorant and take it elsewhere. You didnt say one thing that has to do with the OP.

The only one being ignorant here is you. You can't focus on why one ability got nerfed without taking a look at all similar abilities the class has. MC isn't the only mobility/survivability at a Hunter's disposal. It's called CLASS BALANCING as in the entire CLASS is taken upon consideration when they change abilities. MC was overpowered when you take other abilities Hunters can use in conjunction with it.

If they had kept MC the way it was, then they would have nerfed another aspect of the Hunter to keep their mobility in check. How would you feel if they kept MC at an undispellable 35s cooldown, but increased Disengage's CD to 2m? Probably less happy I'd bet.

Stop tunnel visioning only one class ability and acquire an open mind on the matter before making useless threads and comments.

[Rahzael]

how is feign death even included in this conversation considering all it does against a Ret Pally is drop target which has no effect since you have no casts. Seriously stop comparing ret abilities to hunter abilities on this post. This is a post about Masters Call on a HUNTER forum discussing the change made in this patch. You dont see any hunters here saying OMG WHEN I USE RAPID FIRE I SHOULD BE ABLE TO CAST KILL SHOT THE HUNTER EQUIVALENT OF HAMMER OR WRATH BECAUSE PALADINS CAN DO THAT WHEN THEY POP WINGS.just stop being ignorant and take it elsewhere. You didnt say one thing that has to do with the OP.

You seem incapable of reading quotes. In an earlier post you were yapping at Sengura who was responding to a different poster, but taking it in the context of "BUT I NEVER SAID". You're repeating that mistake here. A little reading comprehension goes a long way.

So since it clearly went over your head: I was responding to someone who suggested hunters had inferior mobility when compared to ret Paladins. I never said hunters were better off than or worse than rets or anyone else, but to restate what I said in the post you should have read before responding to: Suggesting a hunter has poor mobility would be rather silly, and especially when comparing them to ret Paladins.

In regard to feign death: If you don't understand why it would be brought up in a conversation regarding mobility/escape mechanics, I doubt you know very much about hunter PvP to be complaining about anything.

On Topic: All dispel mechanics are irritating in my opinion, but spellsteal has been a pain in the ass(much moreso on my Paladin than on my hunter, even now) and is a silly mechanic in my opinion. I'm not sure why Blizzard thinks it balanced for a mage, with all their control, to be able to become immune to snares and roots at the cost of someone else's cooldown, while triggering none of their own. Especially when this technique is designed to combat some of the many forms of control the mage inflicts upon their targets to begin with, and is certain to be cast at some point during the fight.

[Sesshou]

The OP's comparisons are horrible. You can't compare a ranged dps's mobility to a melee's mobility. A melee (well maybe except dk's) pretty much can't do anything to you when you are at range while a ranged dps can murder them. That is why closers for melee are so important and sprint and such can't be dispelled. A hunter does not just instantly die because MC gets dispelled and a melee is omg actually able to touch them. I mean they even fixed deterrence now so unless you are dotted up heavily you can just sit there and take no damage (and readiness it and do it again).

[kunn]

You seem incapable of reading quotes. In an earlier post you were yapping at Sengura who was responding to a different poster, but taking it in the context of "BUT I NEVER SAID". You're repeating that mistake here. A little reading comprehension goes a long way.

So since it clearly went over your head: I was responding to someone who suggested hunters had inferior mobility when compared to ret Paladins. I never said hunters were better off than or worse than rets or anyone else, but to restate what I said in the post you should have read before responding to: Suggesting a hunter has poor mobility would be rather silly, and especially when comparing them to ret Paladins.

In regard to feign death: If you don't understand why it would be brought up in a conversation regarding mobility/escape mechanics, I doubt you know very much about hunter PvP to be complaining about anything.

On Topic: All dispel mechanics are irritating in my opinion, but spellsteal has been a pain in the ass(much moreso on my Paladin than on my hunter, even now) and is a silly mechanic in my opinion. I'm not sure why Blizzard thinks it balanced for a mage, with all their control, to be able to become immune to snares and roots at the cost of someone else's cooldown, while triggering none of their own. Especially when this technique is designed to combat some of the many forms of control the mage inflicts upon their targets to begin with, and is certain to be cast at some point during the fight.

Good job telling people that they are incapable of reading quotes, when you cant urself either.
Where did i say, hunters have inferior mobility to rets? Or, poor mobility at all? Just because you play a pala, you dont have to flip
out. All i sayd, was hunters aint the top mobility class out there, + Hof aint the only thing rets have.
Relax, grab a coffee or smt.

[Rahzael]

Good job telling people that they are incapable of reading quotes, when you cant urself either.
Where did i say, hunters have inferior mobility to rets? Or, poor mobility at all? Just because you play a pala, you dont have to flip
out. All i sayd, was hunters aint the top mobility class out there, + Hof aint the only thing rets have.
Relax, grab a coffee or smt.

That'd be called inductive reasoning. You quoted someone who's point was "ret Paladins have inferior mobility to hunters" and then went on to talk about what ret abilities they did have. I laid everything out on the table, since your argument was obviously favoring a false idea, even if you did not directly say it.

And if it wasn't clear already, I play both a hunter and a paladin. There was no "flip", I just call it like I see it, and what you said was silly.