Bear stat weights - Mr. Robot wants your input

[Deleted]

Just a quick note, tried out the gear optimizer and it tried to equip two of the same Unique-equipped trinkets at the same time, one non-heroic and one heroic, and I think that you can't have both the heroic and non-heroic trinkets equipped at the same time? Please correct me if I'm wrong

[Barawr]

This should still be acceptable as they are different items.

[Paskgotsheal]

You cannot equip two of the same item even if one is heroic and one is not.

[Barawr]

Hmmm, you used to be able to. When did this get changed around because I know it was still happening during ToC and WOTLK?

Edit: I'm specifically thinking of Solace and Reign trinket stacking.

[Duilliath]

Hmmm, you used to be able to. When did this get changed around because I know it was still happening during ToC and WOTLK?

Edit: I'm specifically thinking of Solace and Reign trinket stacking.

Was changed in ICC. Couldn't stack Deathbringer's Will, for example.

[Barawr]

Gotcha. It never came up for me to want to stack any trinkets (wasn't a druid then) so I guess I didn't realize it. Thanks for the info. :-)

[Ozy]

I appreciate what your trying to do MrRobot, because as one who plays a bear, when it comes to stat weights I have seen more opinions than The View.

I know every boss fight is situation and I dont think MrRobot wants to create a static system that tells you what stats are best no matter what, however maybe they can give new bears a place to start and us old bears something to think about.

Edit: Later i check out the prot pally page and noticed you gave dodge/parry more weight than mastery......huh? I know i can change the weight but the fact that your page is set up this way as a default makes me wonder...

[Yellowfive]

I wasn't aware that you can't stack heroic/non-heroic versions of trinkets anymore, missed that change to the game. We'll update our gear optimizer to obey that rule in a future update.

Ozy, about paladins: diminishing returns are applied behind the scenes to dodge/parry weights to give a little more dynamic optimization than a single set of static weights. Before DR, dodge and parry are most definitely better than mastery -- this is an easy math problem (2.25 blocks at 40% = 90% damage reduced, and it takes almost the same amount of mastery rating to get 1 mastery as it takes dodge rating to get 1% dodge: 90% < 100%).

Theck at maintankadin has very accurately shown the point at which mastery rating starts to pass up dodge/parry rating due to dminishing returns. It's pretty low, around 5% or so on your gear (does not include base dodge/parry, so more like 10% on your character sheet). It is very easy to get to this point.

If you look at the actual gem/enchant/reforge suggestions made by Mr. Robot using the default weights, you will see that it favors mastery for paladins, as expected.

[Deleted]

Let's make things simple for people.

Add tanking, Block>Avoidance>EH.
Normal boss, Avoidance>Block>EH. Swap to stam trinkets on Chim if you take doubles.
HC boss, EH>Avoidance>Block.

EH = Stamina and Armor.
Avoidance = Dodge.
Block = Mastery and all stats that benefit it.

Your Mastery benefits from all stats, both defensive and offensive stats . Wich you priorotize on depends on your current stats and if you are interupting or not (if you do, get Hit capped). Haste is by far the worst stat though and should be avoided as much as possible. Though blizzard failed on feral tier set itemization the 4-piece is in most cases a must have.

All the above mentioned, only accounts for Physical dmg. The only weapon vs Magical dmg is Stam and the Meta gem with Spelldmg reduction.

[Mystile]

Haste is by far the worst stat though and should be avoided as much as possible. Though blizzard failed on feral tier set itemization the 4-piece is in most cases a must have.

I cannot look at the 6 seconds of longer survival instincts and see it being worth the awful secondary stats on tier vs. off set items. Just my personal view, but Toskk also shows 4 piece being worse than quite a few off pieces.

[Arielle]

I cannot look at the 6 seconds of longer survival instincts and see it being worth the awful secondary stats on tier vs. off set items. Just my personal view, but Toskk also shows 4 piece being worse than quite a few off pieces.

Yeah, it's not a must-have for Bears, that's for sure.

[Yellowfive]

The 4-piece bonus is actually one of those places where a simulator like RoboMaul can come in handy. I added survival instincts to the simulator really quick... I just had it used at a random time somewhere near the middle of each fight, so kind of a "worst case" for its usefulness, but good enough for a quick test. I ran 1 million iterations on each setup, and I increased the boss damage to 150,000 such that a fully mitigated hit (after armor and all that) hits for around 47,000.

Using Mr. Robot's BiS T11-level gear that picks 4-piece T11 (whether it's actually "BiS" we can debate another time, its stats are close enough for this test):

2563930 ± 391 total damage taken per fight

Setting T11 4-piece value to 0 and generating a new BiS list, it substitutes in these items for the 4 set pieces:
Tsanga's Helm
Poison Protocol Pauldrons
Sack of the Unwatched
Wind Stalker Leggings of the Windstorm

2561679 ± 396 total damage taken per fight

So, skipping the 4-piece bonus, you take a whopping 2251 less damage, or about 0.088%.
If total damage taken is your metric, 4-piece T11 is about equivalent to any stats you could gain by not getting it.


If you use survival instincts twice per fight instead of just once:

With 4-piece: 2471970 ± 377 total damage taken per fight
Without: 2499026 ± 387 total damage taken per fight

Skipping 4T11, you take 27056 MORE damage, or about 1.09%.


Conclusion
4T11 is a decent set bonus if total damage taken is your metric -- it just about offsets the lost stats for using the tier gear's weaker stats.

If you frequently use survival instincts more than once per fight, 4T11 seems to be a clear winner.

Though when I say "clear" winner, we're still talking the difference of 1 boss attack or less in an entire fight. In my book, that's close enough for personal preference. In the min-maxer book, you probably want to pick up 4T11.