I need serious help (threat issues)

[deeveeus]

oki have tried everything , well almost everything. but i was in a bot pug last night and the other pally had WAAAY more threat than i did. i was wondering what can i do to improve my threat. My paladins name is Lightbringah on Wildhammer us horde side. please help it may be my spec, or the fact that my expertise isnt high enough but please help. the gear isnt an issue. just need comments about spec and stats. thanks a bunch.

Lightbringah Wildhammer US Horde

[Alta87]

Are you a tank? Was the other pally a DPS? Maybe someone had RF on/off or something? Would be easier to help if you described who was doing what m8 (=

[Soisoisoi]

His armory for those who want it:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ingah/advanced


Did you have Righteous Fury on and did he? Are you playing Right? If so, Expertise is your best threat stat, but you shouldn't need it.

From what I know of tanks in general, you're meant to be reforging AWAY from expertise and Hit, not towards it, into Mastery. If he was getting hit first, he'll be getting vengeance and it'll be even harder for you to take agro, that could of been a problem?

[deeveeus]

we were both tanks. he had maybe 6% more threat than i did. he was at expertise cap fully buffed i was below it. i was looking at the logs the lil chump was taunting off of me. i found the issue. thanks a bunch

[Prentice]

If he's getting hit harder than you he'll have a higher vengeance buff and deal more damage. This is one possible cause. It seems counterproductive to increase your damage taken just to increase your threat output, but it is a possibility.

[deeveeus]

thanks prentice i never even thought about that

[zox]

There are 2 questions to be answered here:
1., did the dps had to hold back because of your low tps?
2., did the healers have problems with keeping you up?
Yes-Yes: get better gear/play better
Yes-No: you might wanna get a tad more threat stats.
No-No: You're already good. If you want to still up your game, you can look at which one of you got more damage taken, etc. and draw conclusions from that.

Also, don't use pure stamina gems. Go mastery as much as possible. You have too low block chance. Higher block chance can lead to a bit more threat through reckoning too.

[Higg]

it's possible he was using Inquisition more often than you. I assume you're talking about tanking trash because I don't know why you'd be concerned bout threat generation otherwise, because if he's assigned to tank the boss and you're just hitting the boss, he's going to have a lot more threat from Vengeance.

[Gallahadd]

we were both tanks. he had maybe 6% more threat than i did. he was at expertise cap fully buffed i was below it. i was looking at the logs the lil chump was taunting off of me. i found the issue. thanks a bunch

I hate tanks that do that Unless of course it's somewhere like BH then I hate the tanks that DON'T taunt off you.

speaking of BH though, was there today, with a sslliighhttllyy better geared tank, both paladins and he was doing a good 2/3k more Tps than me(to the point that on taunt, he would almost be pulling the boss back off me, he actually did a couple of times), couldn't work it out till I checked damage taken and his gear, I'd taken a good 4/5% less damage than he had, as I'd reforged for survivability/avoidance and he had reforged for super threat (hit and Expertise capped, even sacrificing mastery :S) so if you do find yourself getting out-threated (is that even a word?) by another tank whose NOT spammin taunt, check the reforging/gemming, could be they've gone for threat over TTL.

[Eurytos]

this is interesting to me. not the OPs question, since he figured it out anyway, but the idea of stam v. mastery and its effects on threat

by stacking mastery, and therefore blocking more often, are you not gaining as much vengeance as a tank that stam stacks?
essentially, by taking advantage of our mastery we may be producing less threat.
i wonder how this will play out out higher gear levels. if i remember correctly, vengeance was created so tanks could keep up with top dps at the highest gear levels. though, at higher gear levels, we will be blocking even more often than now, if not blocking every attack. granted, our stam will also be higher and bosses will hit harder, but im curious to see how this plays out. maybe not totally in regards to tank threat vs dps threat, but maybe non-block tanks threat v. block tank threat.

and maybe none of this will really matter at all. :P

[KeirAdish]

Well realistically you are expertise capped so it was more your rotation, I want everyone to remember their seal adds 10 expertise so you only really need 16 expertise to hit the cap and then its just a waste(in a sense) so if he hadn't been taunting he was just using a more threat generating rotation...

[davep]

this is interesting to me. not the OPs question, since he figured it out anyway, but the idea of stam v. mastery and its effects on threat

by stacking mastery, and therefore blocking more often, are you not gaining as much vengeance as a tank that stam stacks?
essentially, by taking advantage of our mastery we may be producing less threat.
i wonder how this will play out out higher gear levels. if i remember correctly, vengeance was created so tanks could keep up with top dps at the highest gear levels. though, at higher gear levels, we will be blocking even more often than now, if not blocking every attack. granted, our stam will also be higher and bosses will hit harder, but im curious to see how this plays out. maybe not totally in regards to tank threat vs dps threat, but maybe non-block tanks threat v. block tank threat.

and maybe none of this will really matter at all. :P

When you block (mastery) you are still getting hit which stacks your vengeance regardless.

[Stockli]

oki have tried everything , well almost everything. but i was in a bot pug last night and the other pally had WAAAY more threat than i did. i was wondering what can i do to improve my threat. My paladins name is Lightbringah on Wildhammer us horde side. please help it may be my spec, or the fact that my expertise isnt high enough but please help. the gear isnt an issue. just need comments about spec and stats. thanks a bunch.

Lightbringah Wildhammer US Horde

I also am having threat problems at the moment . my character name is stockli on the bladefist realm if anyone wants to look it up, i usualy say to the dps to wait until i have 3 holy power, so that i can get my rotation going.
or i usualy let a warrior pull then i use taunt, seems easier

[Cardolan]

Well realistically you are expertise capped so it was more your rotation, I want everyone to remember their seal adds 10 expertise so you only really need 16 expertise to hit the cap and then its just a waste(in a sense) so if he hadn't been taunting he was just using a more threat generating rotation...

26 expertise only means you can't be dodged; since tanks will generally have the boss facing them (if they're actively tanking), being parried is a possibility and it requires considerably more expertise to get to a point where that can't happen.

Also, "if he hadn't been taunting"? It's already been established that he was taunting, so what relevance does anything after this have?

---------- Post added 2011-03-03 at 12:54 PM ----------

When you block (mastery) you are still getting hit which stacks your vengeance regardless.

Since I no longer tank as my mainspec and have considerably less time to dedicate to reading forums and such these days, I haven't paid too much attention to how exactly Vengeance works. Is the Vengeance gained based on the damage of the attack before or after mitigation?

[deeveeus]

i had resolved the issue. he was taking more damage than i was. becuase i was blocking more. but i have taken a lot of advice from you guys. i got hit and exp capped. reworked my rotation a lil but and now i am a threat machine as well as my dps went up dramatically. last night i was doing 10k dps on single target boss fights no blood lust. and yes thanks about the inquisition tip i rarely used it but it helps a lot. especially in the beginning pull


AGAIN. if you read up my issue was resolved a while ago so stop trolling me lol. no but really thanks again and i have gotten significant gear upgrades since i made this topic have fun!

MOD please lock the topic! thanks

[Deleted]

U have to always consider that with the vengeance buff added,the first tank who aggroes the mob and gets hitted holds the threat.i mean if i hit the mob for 1k and the other tank(not having the aggro)hit for 1k,the next swing i ll land will be harder than his because i got the vengeance and he didnt.The rule all the time (almost) is that the first who gets hitted got the aggro unless the other taunts.

On the other hand if i got better avoidance and mitigation than the other tank and we get the same damage he will hit harder faster than me.I mean that i ll stack 10kAP in 15 secs when he will gather the same amount of AP in 10 or 12 secs for example.

In conclusion dont get mad about threat and always check the other tank's gear,its silly but yes sometimes lower gear in terms of avoidance and mitigation leads to higher threat(but lower survivability) especially if the amount of stamina is similar.

[Higg]

26 expertise only means you can't be dodged; since tanks will generally have the boss facing them (if they're actively tanking), being parried is a possibility and it requires considerably more expertise to get to a point where that can't happen.

Also, "if he hadn't been taunting"? It's already been established that he was taunting, so what relevance does anything after this have?

---------- Post added 2011-03-03 at 12:54 PM ----------



Since I no longer tank as my mainspec and have considerably less time to dedicate to reading forums and such these days, I haven't paid too much attention to how exactly Vengeance works. Is the Vengeance gained based on the damage of the attack before or after mitigation?

it's based on damage taken up to 10% of your current HP. So a stam-stacking tank will have more threat because his vengeance will be higher because of his hp. A good blocking tank will still max out his vengeance, though, and usually maintain it. I have quite a bit of block when I have mastery trinkets on and I still get the max AP from vengeance.

---------- Post added 2011-03-03 at 09:43 AM ----------

i had resolved the issue. he was taking more damage than i was. becuase i was blocking more. but i have taken a lot of advice from you guys. i got hit and exp capped. reworked my rotation a lil but and now i am a threat machine as well as my dps went up dramatically.

Well, unfortunately the primary source of threat for tanks is Vengeance and using the correct rotation, not hit nor expertise. You don't need hit/expertise to hold threat on a boss. I'm curious why you seem to be competing with this other tank for threat. I would think that if you're in a raid that you would receive tanking assignments. And if it's a situation where you have to switch every so often, the other tank should stop attacking so he doesn't accidentally take back aggro.


Tanks should work as a team, not compete for aggro.