Mages are balanced. Lol

[BloodVengeance]

I don't get your point, he is completely right. At lower rating people have problems with Frost Mages, but at higher rating, they're really not that big a deal.

the point is say people just stepping into the arena cant get past say 1500 rating because frost mage teams are a wall that they cant get past. im over 2200 just saying. mages do need to be fixed at lower brackets or the only competetion above 1500 is gonna be frost mages.

[Swizzle]

When paladins got buffed in the Wrath pre-patch, they just destroyed less skilled and geared people, "dominating" BGs and lower level arenas, while still having trouble against skilled/geared players at higher ratings. Blizzard's solution? Nerf paladins in an attempt to make them suck against bad players too.

But when it's about mages... well, you all see their philosophy there.

Actually, that's not true. The combination of the Paladin buffs in conjunction with the rise of DKs and 2v2 granting rewards is what caused the nerfs, not because rets were blowing everything up in BGs.

[Frostii]

When paladins got buffed in the Wrath pre-patch, they just destroyed less skilled and geared people, "dominating" BGs and lower level arenas, while still having trouble against skilled/geared players at higher ratings. Blizzard's solution? Nerf paladins in an attempt to make them suck against bad players too.

But when it's about mages... well, you all see their philosophy there.

paladins got overbuffed AND... because ret was the only pvp spec?

frost is the ONLY pvp spec a mage has. dont tell me fire is good, if anyone does they are retarded and/or below 800

[Soisoisoi]

[..]and i dont get it.. Why is it that mages have to be so "overpowered" against people who are not skilled? [..]

Read the bolded back to your self.

.. And again...

..Again..

Okay, now let that brain fart out.

Mages 'overpowered' verses un-skilled players.
Re-phrased: Mages are fine, it's just idiots who can't kill them.


Not that I like Mages being able to do what they can as it's purely annoying, but I don't really care. 1v1 isn't balanced, and I know if I was in a 3v3 of some sort I'd be getting dispelled so nearly everything they do becomes near-useless.

[QQmoore]

Why is it that mages have to be so "overpowered" against people who are not skilled?

let me guess, you were one who complained about ret paladins because you trinketed out of repetence then sat through an entire HoJ while the paladin wailed on u with all CDs blown and "one shot you"?

[nyc81991]

Dude, mages are not OP at higher rating, they're always the kill target, and they do have a huge skill cap.

And the buffs theyre getting in 4.1 is justified.

And no i dont play a mage.

Lol frost mages have as much of a skill cap as ret did in 3.0

[soradakey]

Basically, they're not overpowered at all. Only a large majority are clueless as to how they're supposed to be countered. This is not a bad thing. It's one thing saying "X class/spec is too powerful, it can't be killed under fair circumstances", and another saying "X class/spec is too good for me, I'm not good enough to kill him under fair circumstances". The latter is a good thing, you shouldn't be able to beat someone when you're not skilled enough to do so. When the hotshots on AJ starts complaining, and actual esteemed PvP players start bringing it up as a problem, I will as well. Right now, it's not like that.

Mages have a crazy amount of cc mixed with really good utility and a ridiculous instant cast spamable spell that can crit ~30k through 3k resil. Why is it that mages, who can literally be face-rolled through bottom and mid tier pvp, continue to get buffs. While other classes that either struggle, or are just broken at all three tiers are ignored? I don't think it's a bad thing for a game to appeal to the highest skilled players. However I think it's a bad thing when in doing so they ignore everyone else.

[Deleted]

All I hear in this thread is: Whine, whine, whine, more whine, some cool posts, whine, QQ, more QQ and whine. My answer is simple: mages are class meant to be CC specified. And if you can't handle with mage, well... l2p, basically.

[Swizzle]

Mages have a crazy amount of cc mixed with really good utility and a ridiculous instant cast spamable spell that can crit ~30k through 3k resil.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd you're done.

[QQmoore]

The dmg a Frost Mage dishes out is not the problem. No doubt, if you're resilience is low, a Frost Mage will destroy you. At the high end of PVP, they're dmg is right in line with other classes. The problem is their high level of survival and control abilities and how each of them interact with each other to be even more overpowered. A Frost Mage possesses way too much utility all of which are on a rather low Cd I might add. And, they sacrifice "zero" in return. No other class has the following :
- 3 shields (including Ice Block), no other class possesses more than 1.
- 3 active ways to root a target, 1 passive way for a total of 4, no other class possesses more than 1.
- 3 mechanisms for CC (counter spell, sheep (no cd I might add) and freeze).
Add to the fact, a Frost Mage can hit you with 4 pts of attack at the same time (mirror image, flame orb, elemental and whatever the mage is casting at the time), no other class can you hit with more than 2 pts of attack, save one, a warlock.

If you subscribe to the thought PVP is imbalanced, you'll hate it even more after the next patch. Blizzards, for some unknown reason, wants Mages to be OP, that's the bottom line.

If blizzard wanted mages to be OP then they wouldn't have PvE specs like fire be a totally lottery for dps, or arcane be functionally useless for anything beyond 5-man content. I don't know what kind of frost mages you are dealing with, but maybe you are just bad. The "average" frost mage, in my dealing, immediately blows an iceblock, uses counterspell against hunters casting steady shot, is more interested in running up, freezing something, then running away, stands completely confused when they are counterspelled, has 100% reliance on the easily dispelled frost shield for survival. If you get one who is clearly a good pvper, you need to be a good pvper to counter them (this means using LoS or other means to deny the frost mage their ranged advantage, not just fancying yourself awesome). A mediocre player will find *every* class "op" against them if they are facing an opponent with a clue how to play

[QQmoore]

Mages have a crazy amount of cc mixed with really good utility and a ridiculous instant cast spamable spell that can crit ~30k through 3k resil..

Ice lance rarely crits 30k on pve targets without SP procs from trinks and CDs. It's not spammable either... only when FoF is up, try again.

[Deleted]

Im gonna be very thorough on this one, because theres no end to these complaints:

L2P.

[Wow]

I don't get your point, he is completely right. At lower rating people have problems with Frost Mages, but at higher rating, they're really not that big a deal.

Thats also the very thing they said for why they nerfed ret mid way through wrath. Seems little odd they would use the same line but in the opposite way.

[Swizzle]

Thats also the very thing they said for why they nerfed ret mid way through wrath. Seems little odd they would use the same line but in the opposite way.

It ISN'T the same line. Ret was nerfed due to Ret/DK being easy mode to Glad, shoulders, and T2 weapons in S5. This is the same reason Arcane/Mut was nerfed, Flawless Victor was taken out, and 2v2 no longer gives rewards or titles.

Seriously, do people have long term memory loss or something?

[Jerion]

It ISN'T the same line. Ret was nerfed due to Ret/DK being easy mode to Glad, shoulders, and T2 weapons in S5. This is the same reason Arcane/Mut was nerfed, Flawless Victor was taken out, and 2v2 no longer gives rewards or titles.

Seriously, do people have long term memory loss or something?

We felt this change will help balance the ability out, especially in the lower arena brackets where they are very prominent, while not being a negative impact on a Retribution Paladin’s PvE dps.
-Bornakk, 2009

Edit, this was June 2009, which was after 3.1, and unless, as you say, i have long term memory loss, s5 was over at that time.
Edit 2, source fixed.

[JayJay09]

Frost mages high skill cap? Rofl.. Mastering them is not too easy, I'll give Blizzard that.. But every tad can play them well enough to do the usual stuff which most of the times is sufficient. The perfect timing is really not easy as a frostmage, but perfect timing is not needed most of the time.. I've lost Blizzard long ago anyway. They seem to have no clue. I don't get frost novas lack of a real DR and the cooldown of deep freeze. These two things are just way overpowered. Blizzard should just delete Arenas and PvP achievements from the game. They suck too hard at balancing PvP...

Edit: @ the guy above me.. Yeah, I remember that reasoning. Blizzard should just go and f*ck themselves. And in case somebody feels to tell me why I don't just quit my account.. Well, I did.. Tomorrow will be my last paid day .

[Deleted]

Why is the Sun hot? Why is the world moving? Why do birds fly?

I lol'd!

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[Swizzle]

We felt this change will help balance the ability out, especially in the lower arena brackets where they are very prominent, while not being a negative impact on a Retribution Paladin’s PvE dps.
-GC, 2009

Edit, this was June 2009, which was after 3.1, and unless, as you say, i have long term memory loss, s5 was over at that time.

That wasn't even GC, it was Bornakk talking about the Vindication nerf, which happened after S5 ended.

[sawier]

frost mages are ok, l2p

-Blood DK

[BloodVengeance]

frost mages are ok, l2p

-Blood DK

Says the class that was designed in pvp to beat casters... lol..