DPS Scaling, Getting out of hand?

[Boxxy]

from my experience i was at 10-13k dps in heroic blues and went to ~20k dps in epics/2 blues still so i think the comparison is of different classes, gear level and skill level.

[Deleted]

With DPS in Cata scaling from a poor player in blues doing Sub 6K,
to a heroic raid geared player being able to sustain 25K +

I don't know which player you met doing 6k but i hit 85 on the first day in BiS 277/284 gear with a few questing blues and i was capable of holding 12k relatively easily, and about 16k in full 346 and rep epics. Currently doing the 25k+ you mentioned though in 369 ilvl

Also keep in mind that the full 346 to 359 jump is the biggest increase in dps and that it "should" slow down next tier.

[ttkyle]

I would argue the blue player doing 6k is bad, I was doing double that or more in blues.

[Cerebrate]

I'm in zombie mode through heroics. In raids I'm paying attention, playing well, have extra buffs, food buff, flask. I would be surprised if there wasn't a big difference.

[Lucifersam]

6k is a bad benchmark, some classes did 6k on Patchwerk in t7 gear. By Ulduar 6k was mediocre for tank and spank encounters. I know combat ratings plummeted massively from 80-85, but if you're in 329 and doing only 6k DPS (patchwerk style encounter) you either forgot about hit rating or really need to read your specs PvE sticky on the class forums.

[oraz]

I will tell you for a fact i wasn't doing anywhere near what the majority of ppl are saying in this thread 10-15k for a fresh 85 is just absurd sure in a AOE situation but single target on a heroic boss fight no, im happy to be proven wrong by a SS etc.

I average over 20k as Demo in my 10man group and i wasn't doing anywhere close to 15k as a fresh 85..

[Frozendekay]

Our shaman did 13k week 1 in BH with a green or two - I think I did about 11-12k.

Now our top dps is at like 27k in BH.

6k in entry gear is pathetic and they should be ashamed.

[TGS]

I haven't read all the pages of this so I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but a lot of the people in the past that I have noticed quoting DPS figures really don't seem to understand wtf they are talking about. I'll explain.

When people quote an 85 doing 6-8k DPS you wanna know why? Whilst leveling they might have pulled 5-9k sometimes even 10kish DPS. The reason for this is the levels of mobs/bosses they are fighting is actually somewhat even to their own or even below. People often forget and in some cases don't even realize that mob level has a pretty massive impact on how much damage you can put out on them. Now as for the 6-8k dps for a 85 you know why? They are a fresh 85 and they jumped into heroics. They might pull 10-12k damage in normals but because heroics have higher leveled mobs/bosses as they're designed for the cap peoples dps actually drops considerably. Same with raids. That's also why dps scales the way it does for the content. A person who wants to do heroics needs to be prepared with the right stats which have scaled for the level of the heroic mobs. IE if you have enough +hit/+expertise to do just scrape by normals when you hit heroics you will do a lot less dps than you were due to the levels being higher and you missing. Same with raids. It doesn't effect straight mobs so much as it does bosses but it can be very dramatic on those bosses.

So yeah dps can appear low for the simple fact that people often go into content they aren't necessarily prepared for.

[Deleted]

I do 12-15k in heroics (depending on how much aoe involved) on my DK alt in 344 gear, using a 333 weapon. Did Magmaw with my ordinary raid and ended up at 17k dps (exposed head!). My point being those pulling 6-8k in blues are just bad, and those doing 25k+ in heroic raid gear is just very good.

[Deleted]

Why is everyone flaming me for the numbers I posted?

I've leveled 5 classes to level 85, so I understand the numbers lets give a long and detailed explaination.

My warrior - Tank mainly could do decent DPS in a raid setting I was doing about 9K but this was conclave and I was jumping around not really understanding the fight.
My Spriest - yes SPreists they have been one of the most powerful classes so far, high DPS even when dinged. I've seen some progress and I have some epics, in raids I'm pulling 14-16K consistantly non-gimmicky fights, on multi dot fights higher.
Warlock - started off doing 6K in heroic now doing 9K mainly for PVP so not totally kitted out in PVE gear, doing about 10K in raids, would be alot better if I got PVE gear in slots and if I practised demo/destro rotation, but mainly I'm afflilock PVP.
Rogue - 6K dps once dinged - once I got decent daggers this jumped up alot, seen 11-12K in raids but not had the opeortunity to raid much on him.
Mage - Hoping to raid on this guy once I get home (at work now and not possible to raid) Seen 6K in heroics once dinged with poor gear as I leveled mainly through the zones and didn't pick up much leveling rares or dungeon rares. now doing very good dps with rep epics and crafted epics, on a blow it all fight (fireboss in Hoo) manged 22K again not a very good example at all, but just to show his numbers would be ok in a raid setting.

So with these numbers in place - yes maybe my DPS was poor once dinged, I know for a fact that I (like many other people) was using the crafted pvp blues to get into heorics because they had higher Ilevel, but also using the dungeon finder (before and after 15% buff) I've seen 6K or even less.

So again numbers out of my ass - I remember doing 2K sustained in Wrath (OMG THATS SO SHIT) yes offspec gear in a ten man raid in naxx
By the end of wrath (Ignoring the ICC Buff because that blew numbers out of all preportion) I was around 10K.

so if some people are stating 10K as a starting number - your looking at 50K as a finishing number.

Theres a large difference and your going to see a massive range of dps across the board, making raids difficult to tune.

Already in one of my guilds that I've had progress on we've had the top 2 me and a lock pulling 15K consistantly with others in the raid pulling around 8K dps, are they poor yes, but we downed the content due to knowing the mechanics, but again how can blizz tune all the raids when the DPS is so varied across the board (lets not use the scaling word this time)

TLR nvm, lol

Sorrry dude, but the numbers u did with those classes as freshly dinged are just god awful : /

unless u were sub as rogue, frost (maybe not even then) as mage etc.. all subpar specs.. then MAYBE I can believe u to be a good/mediocre player.

guys with 6k dps @85 should take a moment to read the tooltips on each of their attacks and try to wrap their heads around the info.

[KaPe]

I think most of people in this thread are confusing "freshly dinged 85 with a blue or two" and "full 346 gear, with reputation epic or two", which is why we get all those "I'm *so* sorry, but you are so bad and I am so good, since I did 12k in blues".

[Lao_tzu]

Sorrry dude, but the numbers u did with those classes as freshly dinged are just god awful : /

unless u were sub as rogue, frost (maybe not even then) as mage etc.. all subpar specs.. then MAYBE I can believe u to be a good/mediocre player.

guys with 6k dps @85 should take a moment to read the tooltips on each of their attacks and try to wrap their heads around the info.

Lol, ok im outta patience with this. Nearly everyone here has come along with their Epeen and focused on the numbers I posted.

The numbers I used are to put Things into Context, what I'm trying to find an opinion on is the current state of DPS scaling that I Think is out of hand.

Now looking at the scale of DPS from the top players with top gear in top guilds it looks to me like DPS is getting way outta hand, and with each new patch and a new tier (4.2) firelands I worry that the gear step will make current content redundant, largly being able to muscle through without following the mechanics of the fight.

If I remember back to TBC simple fights like the ones in Kara you still had to follow the mechanics because of the design of the bosses. I don't want to see cata becomming like Wrath because the DPS is outta hand.

[Solia]

If I remember back to TBC simple fights like the ones in Kara you still had to follow the mechanics because of the design of the bosses. I don't want to see cata becomming like Wrath because the DPS is outta hand.

You must not have done Kara in T6 or SWP gear then. Going from 400-600 DPS (that the fights were made for) to 1500-2000 DPS pretty much meant you zerged down a lot of bosses before their mechanics matter (Nightbane landing to only fly up again anyone?)

So we have a 4-6x increase in DPS numbers here, AND I'm being generous here, won't consider the baddies doing 200 dps.

Sure there were mechanics like Prince bringing you down to 1 HP that melee still has to run out of, but you have something similar to that with the Chimaeron encounter.

The number you used to 'put things in context' are flawed to begin with which is why most everyone is ripping on them. And since the flawed number are the basis for this whole argument of yours, well, do I need to say more?

[Lao_tzu]

You must not have done Kara in T6 or SWP gear then. Going from 400-600 DPS (that the fights were made for) to 1500-2000 DPS pretty much meant you zerged down a lot of bosses before their mechanics matter (Nightbane landing to only fly up again anyone?)

So we have a 4-6x increase in DPS numbers here, AND I'm being generous here, won't consider the baddies doing 200 dps.

Sure there were mechanics like Prince bringing you down to 1 HP that melee still has to run out of, but you have something similar to that with the Chimaeron encounter.

The number you used to 'put things in context' are flawed to begin with which is why most everyone is ripping on them. And since the flawed number are the basis for this whole argument of yours, well, do I need to say more?

Ahh but you've set a perfect example, no one in SWP gear is going to need an upgrade from Kara, they would have been doing it for the lolz.

but by the time people get badge gear patch 4.2 and go into entry level raid they'll probably be able to by-pass mecahnics due to massive stat/dps inflation.

Also the numbers you quoted yourself shows a 3x dps inflation across, Kara - entry level raid to SWP gear end teir TBC. were seing a 3x dps inflation now between entry level and heroic level gear on the first tier of content.

I'm all for making things easier as you go along by having a casual raid getting better geared and doing better numbers, what I didn't want to see is dps scaling so much that you could by-pass mechanics and end up with stupid raiders again.
the Chim encounter is an example of a good raid mechanic that can't be by-passed as much, although out-gearing will make it easier with encounter time and healing throughput.