Probable reality of Call to Arms...

[Lucapa]

While i don't think this is a pure vs. hybrid discussion, i do think that giving tanks an incentive to not run with their guildies and friends is very, very bad for the game from a social point of view.

[reverendball]

While i don't think this is a pure vs. hybrid discussion, i do think that giving tanks an incentive to not run with their guildies and friends is very, very bad for the game from a social point of view.

by phat lewtz, you mean i tiny bit of gold, some pathetic mats, and an appropriately epicly low chance at a old mount?

still not worth using the LookingForDerps tool, still too many spacecadets in it >_<

most ppl who care about those mounts has gone a soloed the instances for them anyway

guild runs will still reign supreme

[Brett Skullcrack]

guild runs will still reign supreme

Doubt it, tanks not only get the goodie bag, but random groups get the buff that guild groups don't get. Now that guilds are max level I will much rather solo queue and get the extra rewards.

[Riboe]

If your guildies refuse to help you out, it's time to find a new guild.

The scenario is going to happen, but if you're in a decent guild, there's no need to worry.

[Deleted]

Doubt it, tanks not only get the goodie bag, but random groups get the buff that guild groups don't get. Now that guilds are max level I will much rather solo queue and get the extra rewards.

Even without the 15% damage buff, my guild will do more damage than every group of morons the LFD tool will spit into my face.

[Talen]

Love how people are already jumping on the "omfg it sucks" bandwagon before even giving it a try. Th epoint of it is to try and reduce queue times by getting more tanks (through bribery) to queue, which is pretty much what everyone has been demanding from Blizzard, now they try to do it, and everyone whines about it.

From my pov, the problem isn't that blizzard is trying. That's good.

The problem is the bribe they are offering is fairly poor, so the solution won't work. It's not, as the OP stated, "phat lewt". Its poor loot...good and a chance at a mount that can be soloed? At best, you'll get a glut of tanks queuing to get the mounts from dungeons they can run once a day. And then they'll drop out and we're back to square one.

At the same time, what they are offering is about the best they can do without offering actual points...which IS what would get people queuing for the tanking role.

But, if queue times of 2 minutes vs 45 won't persuade people to tank, this bribe won't be successful.

EJL

[cococabana]

I think you are right to a certain extent. Some tanks will do that. Unfortunately for those in queue though, it will not likely be the good tanks. Most of them will still prefer to run with guild members. The success rate of the average full pug is still too low, and the time spent in a full pug is still too long for good players to give up a guaranteed quick smooth run for the russian roulette that is the rdf. Who cares if I get an extra 30g from a heroic if I have an extra 50g repair bill? The mounts? All easily farmable solo. With a 0% chance of death/failure/repair bills/idiots. Only way this system works for me, is if there is a chance at a mount that is not easily farmable, like ashes or mimiron's head. But that won't happen.

The real problem is simple. Nobody wants to run heroics. Once you have the gear from the heroics, there is no reason to return. They have passed their point of usefulness. But they are still necessary tools for new players/alts to gear up and learn to play, so they put in reasons, for those of us who do not want to do them anymore, to do them. Daily valor points. And, since that wasn't incentive enough for an important subset of the population to queue up in large enough numbers, a larger bribe was necessary.

But, a real probable reality is this. If at some point, I do decide to solo queue, I'm certainly not going to queue if my chosen roll is not called to arms. I'll simply wait it out until it is. My main is a healer, so I'll have to wait a bit, till the tanks all queue up. But there will certainly be enough healers like me willing to wait it out until enough tanks are in the queue waiting for healers to call the healers to arms. If it doesn't happen, oh well. But it's an odd effect because I WOULD HAVE run the dungeon when there was no reward, but I would be unwilling to run it when there is a potential reward that I would be unable to get at that time.

[reverendball]

But, a real probable reality is this. If at some point, I do decide to solo queue, I'm certainly not going to queue if my chosen roll is not called to arms. I'll simply wait it out until it is. My main is a healer, so I'll have to wait a bit, till the tanks all queue up. But there will certainly be enough healers like me willing to wait it out until enough tanks are in the queue waiting for healers to call the healers to arms. If it doesn't happen, oh well. But it's an odd effect because I WOULD HAVE run the dungeon when there was no reward, but I would be unwilling to run it when there is a potential reward that I would be unable to get at that time.

i totally agree with this.

it seems to me that it is very likely that roles will wait until there is a call to arms before they queue

i know im likely to char swap to fit the cta role rather than queue when its not up, and wait on cta role changes for diff chars

obv not for dps, but def for tanks and possibly for healing chars
will be interesting to see how often if at all there is a call to arms for healers

[Deleted]

While i don't think this is a pure vs. hybrid discussion, i do think that giving tanks an incentive to not run with their guildies and friends is very, very bad for the game from a social point of view.

But how many non jerk guild tanks would actually say "screw you guys, I'm going solo"?

I know I wont but I also know that this incentive however good the idea is, wont make me solo queue just to get abused by 4 random asshats.

[davesurfer]

While i don't think this is a pure vs. hybrid discussion, i do think that giving tanks an incentive to not run with their guildies and friends is very, very bad for the game from a social point of view.

If this is the case they are worthless guildies. I am a tank, but you know what? I will NEVER get this goddie bag, because i always run with the same healer. With my healer we can carry even the worst of the worst DPS (not saying we always get bad DPS). Success is always>Goodies.

For example last night had a super fail DPS group in BRC. They all died on the Bonecrusher's first skull cracker. I mean come on all 3? So the healer keeps me up until the next chains which we can't DPS fast enough. Healer dies. BUT unlike all the DPS laying on the ground, she releases runs in and tops me off. We do this twice as I cycle through CDs. think a DPSer got the clue? No.

So you will not find me or any of my 3 raiding tanks getting a goodie bag, as I will not put my chance of success in 4 random people


EDIT: Even though i will never get it, it is a good move by Blizz and I support it

[Scuravolpe]

by phat lewtz, you mean i tiny bit of gold, some pathetic mats, and an appropriately epicly low chance at a old mount?

still not worth using the LookingForDerps tool, still too many spacecadets in it >_<

most ppl who care about those mounts has gone a soloed the instances for them anyway

guild runs will still reign supreme

That was the single greatest response to this issue I have ever seen. I tip my hat to you, good sir, and award you an internet.

[ThemsAllTook]

Nobody wants to run heroics.

There are PvE players who never/rarely raid and enjoy heroics as their main endgame content. It's not just a chore to everyone.

[volescue]

Doubt it, tanks not only get the goodie bag, but random groups get the buff that guild groups don't get. Now that guilds are max level I will much rather solo queue and get the extra rewards.

I would much rather go with the group I know will be able to get through the heroic in 30-40 minutes than the one that could take an hour to two hours.

But I suppose it is personal preference.

[Verth Aeyta]

My guild hardly runs dungeons, we just raid, so most people in my guild queue up solo anyway

[Thandrin]

Why exactly is there a restriction that you dont get goodies if you use LFD with partial group and you are the CTA role? I havent seen anyone else ask this question.

Is it because someone can choose to "give" the goodie bag to someone else who is also hybrid class by allowing him to queue as tank, but in reality they will swap roles? Preventing friends queueng alltogether seems extremely dumb way to prevent such small scale "clever use of game mechanics".

I almost only play with my boyfriend and I enjoy tanking. First I though this would be great way to inspire me to tank some heroics, but I dont want to play alone so I guess this feature doesnt affect me at all.

[dense]

Why exactly is there a restriction that you dont get goodies if you use LFD with partial group and you are the CTA role? I havent seen anyone else ask this question.

Is it because someone can choose to "give" the goodie bag to someone else who is also hybrid class by allowing him to queue as tank, but in reality they will swap roles? Preventing friends queueng alltogether seems extremely dumb way to prevent such small scale "clever use of game mechanics".

I almost only play with my boyfriend and I enjoy tanking. First I though this would be great way to inspire me to tank some heroics, but I dont want to play alone so I guess this feature doesnt affect me at all.

It's to get those random bad dds with no friends into groups

[Torgent]

I think you are right to a certain extent. Some tanks will do that. Unfortunately for those in queue though, it will not likely be the good tanks. Most of them will still prefer to run with guild members. The success rate of the average full pug is still too low, and the time spent in a full pug is still too long for good players to give up a guaranteed quick smooth run for the russian roulette that is the rdf. Who cares if I get an extra 30g from a heroic if I have an extra 50g repair bill? The mounts? All easily farmable solo. With a 0% chance of death/failure/repair bills/idiots. Only way this system works for me, is if there is a chance at a mount that is not easily farmable, like ashes or mimiron's head. But that won't happen.

The real problem is simple. Nobody wants to run heroics. Once you have the gear from the heroics, there is no reason to return. They have passed their point of usefulness. But they are still necessary tools for new players/alts to gear up and learn to play, so they put in reasons, for those of us who do not want to do them anymore, to do them. Daily valor points. And, since that wasn't incentive enough for an important subset of the population to queue up in large enough numbers, a larger bribe was necessary.

But, a real probable reality is this. If at some point, I do decide to solo queue, I'm certainly not going to queue if my chosen roll is not called to arms. I'll simply wait it out until it is. My main is a healer, so I'll have to wait a bit, till the tanks all queue up. But there will certainly be enough healers like me willing to wait it out until enough tanks are in the queue waiting for healers to call the healers to arms. If it doesn't happen, oh well. But it's an odd effect because I WOULD HAVE run the dungeon when there was no reward, but I would be unwilling to run it when there is a potential reward that I would be unable to get at that time.

I don't know what heroic randoms you get into...but I haven't failed a random heroic in months.

[Deleted]

You guys do realize that:

1.) the "rewards" are a handful of gold/mats far from worth the time spent in the dungeon,
2.) if all tanks act like in OPs example there won't even be a tank CtA,
3.) the odds you'll get a mount from a bag are just as small as if you went ahead and farmed the old dungeons alone. Except taking far much more time.

It's a great solution, stop complaining about everything. Everybody can't win, just accept the fact that things can't always go exactly the way you want it to and move on in life.

[Sunseeker]

I wouldn't be surprised if breaking the "get a guild" was part of the point here. If all the experienced players are in guilds, who's gonna help carry the noobs? If noobs don't get carried, they won't get gear, if they don't get gear, they'll quit playing, if they quit playing, Blizzard is a sad panda. So now they're rewarding people for putting up with stupid so that Blizzard keeps making money.

[Thandrin]

It's to get those random bad dds with no friends into groups

Yes, I get that, but why Im not eligible to be the CTA role, if I join with partial group? 1 to 3 randoms still get their tank.