Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[terrahero]

From the other side of the coin however its probably a good idea if new players are somewhat forced to try a couple different utilities along the way up the leveling path. It makes them use a few skills they normaly might not pick and might teach them that these are ment to be situational not just DPS clickies that your avrage wow player will gravitate too. While you have something of a point for an experienced player it is not that big a burden. An experienced player will know how to get the 20 points needed so that all utility tiers are unlocked in fairly short order.

Ive already refuted that. If people are to ignorant to think about their skills now, they wont suddenly do so with the tiered skills. Building on your dps-fanatic example, he'll pick skills that help him dps. And when he runs out, he'll invest in random skills he wont even use just to unlock the next tier. Just because people are forced to pick different utility skills doesnt mean they actually use it.

And if they are in a WoW mindset, picking all their utility skills for a single role is the least harmfull outcome of playing GW2 like WoW. So why is arenanet caving all of a sudden? If you get your ass handed by a mob because you dont dodge "Thats your own fault, get better at the game". But if you pick all utility skills for 1 role "ow poor thing, we should protect you from this and limit you so you always have to pick some variety of utility skills". It doesnt make sense.

[Deleted]

Still talking bout traits, i see...

Y u no happy for BWE in like 4 days

I tried to get people to stop worrying and being happy instead. I don't think anyone noticed.

[grandpab]

I tried to get people to stop worrying and being happy instead. I don't think anyone noticed.

I was already too busy not worrying.

[Meledelion]

The internet is not a happy place!

[Merendel]

Ive already refuted that. If people are to ignorant to think about their skills now, they wont suddenly do so with the tiered skills. Building on your dps-fanatic example, he'll pick skills that help him dps. And when he runs out, he'll invest in random skills he wont even use just to unlock the next tier. Just because people are forced to pick different utility skills doesnt mean they actually use it.

And if they are in a WoW mindset, picking all their utility skills for a single role is the least harmfull outcome of playing GW2 like WoW. So why is arenanet caving all of a sudden? If you get your ass handed by a mob because you dont dodge "Thats your own fault, get better at the game". But if you pick all utility skills for 1 role "ow poor thing, we should protect you from this and limit you so you always have to pick some variety of utility skills". It doesnt make sense.

And if the tier 1 skills are not direct DPS boosts the poor sap has at least had 1 skill on his bar that maybe he'll try to find a use for in the short term. Any little bit could help and if it turns out it does not I'm fairly confident that Anet will iterate it again. Either way it has absolutely no long term impact on you or any other knowledgeable player. You will unlock all the skills eventually if for no other reason than to spend the points when you have nothing else you want to unlock. At worst your going to spend an extra level or two at low levels specificly hunting down skill points to unlock the tier 6 skills. By the time you hit 20 and can use all 3 slots you are likely to not only have all skills avalible that you want to get but have surplus points to spend on a whim. You see a mountain, I see a molehill.

[terrahero]

And if the tier 1 skills are not direct DPS boosts the poor sap has at least had 1 skill on his bar that maybe he'll try to find a use for in the short term. Any little bit could help and if it turns out it does not I'm fairly confident that Anet will iterate it again. Either way it has absolutely no long term impact on you or any other knowledgeable player. You will unlock all the skills eventually if for no other reason than to spend the points when you have nothing else you want to unlock. At worst your going to spend an extra level or two at low levels specificly hunting down skill points to unlock the tier 6 skills. By the time you hit 20 and can use all 3 slots you are likely to not only have all skills avalible that you want to get but have surplus points to spend on a whim. You see a mountain, I see a molehill.

Its not a gamebreaking issue, but its there nonetheless. And if you dont take care of your mole problem all those molehills will ruin your field.
Additionally, we see no reason to believe we have all skillslots unlocked. So to fill up that single utility slot im sure he can find a skill for damage (or whatever role he seems to tunnelvision). If not, then id argue utility skills are not diverse enough, and thats a problem with the design of that profession.

Since it has no longterm impact it defeats the purpose of calling it "progressive", if anything ill probably get every single skill sooner with this system then with the old system unless they cut the skillpoint gain drastically. So its less progressive, just more restrictive.
And further, it doesnt matter what the longterm impact is if it affects my enjoyment of the game early on. Everything was endgame, remember? Leveling was also suppose to be a fun experience, remember?

Having to wait longer before i can finally get the skill i really liked because i lose some of the freedom of my choice is not fun. And i am losing this freedom of choice because Arenanet is suddenly babying its playerbase. As if we cannot handle the responsibility of simply choosing what we like to have first, and what second, and what third etcetc They've always shown themselves to be strongly in favor of having players addept and learn over hand-holding. Its one of the things i liked so much.

So in short, it could very well affect my enjoyment of the game earlier on, which is just as valid as a source of fun as later on. It accomplishes nothing, as the ignorant masses will still be ignorant, and its a general step in a direction (the handholding) that i dont like. I want to be able to fail, and make mistakes, so long as i can learn from them and do better in the future or correct my mistake.

edit:
Here's an idea. If they are so afraid people pick the wrong skills, and they want players to try out different kind of skills. Why not let players simply refund their skills (they become unavailable) but get their points back to spend on another skill.

[Fencers]

Ease of access for newcomers might be one of the reasons for a tiered system of traits and skills. Though I suspect perceived power progression and most importantly, balancing are the bigger concerns.

The problems of an open system as in previous builds are somewhat compounded over the course of the game. I do believe this is simply a matter of reigning in balance in such a way that is reasonable to develop around.

[Deleted]

Why have they changed compass into square?! Me not like

[rhandric]

Why have they changed compass into square?! Me not like

It's a map, not a compass, and how many maps (for those of you old enough to actually use maps ) are round?
Or, in other terms, you'll get more information from a X-length square than a circle with diameter X (both are the same relative size, but circle loses the area between the curve and the edges/corners); A=X^2 vs A=pi*(X/2)^2 = pi/4 * X^2, and since pi/4 < 1...

[Mif]

Word is you can choose square or round in the options.

[Deleted]

As long as you can re-size it I'm happy.

[Squirrelbanes]

Ease of access for newcomers might be one of the reasons for a tiered system of traits and skills. Though I suspect perceived power progression and most importantly, balancing are the bigger concerns.

The problems of an open system as in previous builds are somewhat compounded over the course of the game. I do believe this is simply a matter of reigning in balance in such a way that is reasonable to develop around.

idd. They mentioned this very issue in reltion to GW1...with how difficult things became to balance with each new expansion. New skills, professions, starting zones and all the training etc needed for these new things.
Compounding problem I suppose.

[rhandric]

As long as you can re-size it I'm happy.

Based on the size of the minimap in http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content...2/06/UI-21.jpg I'd say you can resize it
Plus,

MMO players are often very particular about their user interface, and we’re no exception. We’ve listened to your feedback and have refined our UI to make it even easier to use. We’ve revamped the mini-map in the bottom-right corner of the screen. The formerly round mini-map is now square and can easily be resized for better navigation.

Emphasis mine

[Deleted]

Based on the size of the minimap in http://www.arena.net/blog/wp-content...2/06/UI-21.jpg I'd say you can resize it
Plus,

Emphasis mine

Yus yus, didn't say I wasn't happy x).

[rhandric]

Yus yus, didn't say I wasn't happy x).

Nope, y ou just seemed uncertain so I figured I'd give clarity, both for you and anyone else who wanted to know Damn internet not properly conveying tones

[Deleted]

That's ok! Helpfulness is always nice...

Here, have a golem!

[Merendel]

snip

Strait from Anet's most recent blog

Tiers for Skills

We’ve organized each profession’s elite and utility skills into three different tiers, or levels. When you get enough skills in one tier, you unlock the next level of skills. Why the change from the previous model, which let players choose from all the available skills at once?

“The tier system gives players both a sense of progression and accomplishment,” says Lead Designer Eric Flannum. “It encourages them to experiment with different skills as they increase in power, and it avoids overwhelming new players with a huge list of skills to choose from.”

“Plus,” Flannum adds, “the tier system is more scalable and expandable. We can more easily add new skills in the future with this system.”
http://www.arena.net/blog/the-big-beta-weekend-preview

Clearly the devs have their reasons for doing this. They even went to the trouble to tell us those reasons. Some even align with my speculations as to why they might decide to go down this path. Is it the right way to go? Time will tell, as I said if it does not work they will change it again.
To be frank, how vehemently you rage against this minor issue leads me to wonder if your well suited to any beta product. Had skills been tiered like this from the start would you have even known what you were missing? would you have raged for change? your acting like Anet killed your holy cow and your in the process of trying to birth its replacement. With only a few days of hands on experience you've become so attached to the way one system worked that a small change the devs are attempting, in beta no less, for the good of the game is now going to forever ruin your enjoyment of the game. See how it plays out and give your feedback where it will actually reach the devs. Or dont. Regardless I'm done arguing with you on this topic. We apparently will never agree and letting this debate heat further will only get us both infracted.

[Fencers]

I love the square. Greatly miss the mission map from GW1 though. I always get lost in games, so I basically play with the zone/mission map open in every MMO when possible.

[Delias]

I love the square. Greatly miss the mission map from GW1 though. I always get lost in games, so I basically play with the zone/mission map open in every MMO when possible.

Couldn't you just make your minimap large enough to essentially be a mission map now?

[rhandric]

I love the square. Greatly miss the mission map from GW1 though. I always get lost in games, so I basically play with the zone/mission map open in every MMO when possible.

Isn't that half the fun of GW2 though?