Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Deleted]

Yeah but most of players on PTR / in betas don't care about bugs & stuff. They just play new content like it was a live version.

[Meledelion]

That's why you need so many people.

The current alpha/beta testers are mostly reporters or people with influential websites (guides etc), those people are the least likely to report bugs since they show this "trick" and get lots of traffic.

Maybe some bounty system where PTR is open but for each bug-report (that gets recognized as a bug by a-net) gives you X, for all I care it's ingame gems instead of money.

[Huehuecoyotl]

This.

I get that they want to keep things a secret until it goes live, as not to spoil stuff for any of the players, but seriously? If you are gonna go that route, then you NEED to have your shit figured out from the get go. Not just develop something, throw it into the wild, watch it break, and then continually patch it up for the entire 2 weeks it's out. In this day and age, that is unacceptable. People can say "Well, it's an MMO, so it's to be expected". Sorry, but that doesn't fly....especially with the track record Anet has had so far. They need a better way of testing before releasing anything. End of story.

Oh sure, because it's SO much better to have a PTR like say WoW does. Because that TOTALLY doesn't let any bugs out in the wild, does it?

At least this way any bugs get fixed pretty damn quick. And you aren't waiting 3 months or more for major fixes to be made. Is it perfect? No. But the more QA you do, the more it costs, and you will still get live bugs, because no amount of QA will guarantee to catch everything.

I don't know what game you are playing, but I can live with the amount of bugs that get out into this game.

[Fencers]

PTR/S is free QA of a sort.

BTW, what players do on test realms is not so much bug catching or QA passes [which are highly organized processes in development], but players do provide metrics via PTR/S. What's working as a concept and why, where players gravitate, what they exploit, etc.

That is a different set of data and one that can only be gained via test servers or live deployment. One of the two is a smart decision.

[Meledelion]

Why would it cost a lot? Nobody who plays on alpha/beta servers (PTR) is being paid to do so, servers are also quite cheap these days especially considering that you don't need to load the entire game on them.

You're also getting into a stupid argument where we don't know the results of and we can't ever talk about them either. Who says there wouldn't be more bugs on WoW if there wasn't a PTR?(don't get into this, it's just to show how hard it is to make claims about this)

It really depends on the content you do and how serious you are about it.
I got frozen yesterday (unable to move but could use skills) in a dungeon, I died and went w/e rez me and continue.
The same shit happened in a tPvP match where I was the bunker guard on mid defending vs a DPS guard (who had no hopes of killing me if I could fcking dodge) but he killed me because of the bug, we lost mid.
We didn't have a mid supporter for 30s and so on all because of one bug.

[Huehuecoyotl]

You're also getting into a stupid argument where we don't know the results of and we can't ever talk about them either. Who says there wouldn't be more bugs on WoW if there wasn't a PTR?(don't get into this, it's just to show how hard it is to make claims about this)

Of course there would be more bugs on WoW if they didn't have a PTR, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point was, a PTR isn't some magical means of preventing any bugs from getting out. ANET do it one way, we get live bugs, Blizzard do it another way, they get live bugs. From a personal view, I am happier with gameplay that suddenly falls into my lap, with no knowledge, compared to gameplay that sits on a PTR for months with the world and his wife posting videos that spoil everything (yes, I know I could just not look at videos, but I'm weak!)

[Lane]

I agree with Fishbait. I've been saying they need a PTR ever since they started this LS nonsense and perpetually keeping putting out patches that are broken and require hotfixing on an almost daily basis (which is especially fun for those of us with poor internet).

Waiting "3 months" isn't even feasible since the content doesn't last that long. I have, however, frequently had to wait sometimes weeks for them to fix something that should never have even made it into live. So, what you should have had a month to work on turns into a couple of weeks.

As we saw from the last SAB release, the testers they do have either aren't doing their job or aren't representative of the playerbase. I had to quit working on SAB entirely. I simply don't have the interest or patience to spend 2+ hours on an individual level trying to get the achievements only to learn they're bugged and can't be completed, then try again for another 2+ hours when they're supposedly fixed only to learn they're not fixed, oh but this last update fixed them for sure! Nope, too late, I'm done.

[Deleted]

*deep breathe*
I`ve been thinking back to my warcraft days & tbh I can`t really think of anything serious that hit live after however long things were on the PTRs, except for one fire mage thing, but that was more bad raid mechanics & a hugely stupid nerf to all fire mages.*

Yet look at gw2, there was the whole snowflake salvaging mess (made even worse by just about everyone asking anet if was a bug or not & anet just ignoring/not replying, then all of a sudden hundreds getting banned.).
The movement bug mentioned higher up, that has been in the game on & off for dead gods knows how long. Originally hitting mainly ele, then spreading to engie, mesmer & possibly others.
The RTL (the ele destroyer patch) nerf (the third RTL nerf, not the others...) where I & several others asked during live stream when they announced the 20/40sec cd "What happens if someone blocks/aegis etc, will it still be 20sec cd?" only for them to blankly look at each other & mumble "It should still be at 20". That alone would`ve taken two players all of two seconds to test, but ooooooooooh nooooooooo....& still no fix.
(`scuse the rant, that bit still pisses me off).
& it goes on & on & on.
There are even still bugs I recall reporting from BWEs.

Those in PTRs will most likely just play how they usually play, but that`s best, as then that player`ll recognise bugs/glitches/exploits. eg: I`d be useless spotting things in PvE, but put me in PvP & bingo, report, report, report (& watch it still go live ;p)

Also what Fencers stated, it`s not just what the players do, but the numbers showing what they are doing that would help big time too.

*The warcraft fire mage mess.
One raid fight there was one single fire mage that used combustion & blastwave to spread the DoTs. The fire mage wasn`t cheating/bugged, the fight was. The fire mage suddenly was hitting 2-3million dps lol
So, instead of fixing the fight in which no one had killed the bosses & barely anyone had gotten to it, they nerfed fire mage instead, screwing over all regardless of whether they sat at AH, quested or needed those already half-damage-res`-bugged DoTs to fight fair.

[Karizee]

*deep breathe*
I`ve been thinking back to my warcraft days & tbh I can`t really think of anything serious that hit live after however long things were on the PTRs, except for one fire mage thing, but that was more bad raid mechanics & a hugely stupid nerf to all fire mages.*

I on the other hand remember the months of frustration trying to do Firelands where Rhyolith would go dancing off into the waves and locking you out of the instance for the rest of the week. Incredibly frustrating for those working on their legendaries and support wouldn't unlock it for you. Bug was there until the end of cata, could still be a problem for all I know.

I also remember the when Paladins carpeted the WoLs in Dragon Soul when their Seal of Truth was fractaling into infinity. http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/02/02/re...ealm-restarts/

And it wasn't too long ago that Paladins again made the spotlight when after MoP being on the PTR for what was it? 6 months? A low level paladin sauntered in and solo'd a MoP raid.

But just take a look at their bug forums, they have just as many bugs as any other game.

[hrugner]

*deep breathe*
I`ve been thinking back to my warcraft days & tbh I can`t really think of anything serious that hit live after however long things were on the PTRs, except for one fire mage thing, but that was more bad raid mechanics & a hugely stupid nerf to all fire mages.*

I think the reward bag collection and spam opening bug is pretty up there, as would be the huge warlock aoe gold spots, both are major problems that survived several patches and months of beta testing. Those are just two big player economy ones from MoP. These aren't as noticeable since WoW's economy has always been crap, it's a bit hard to recognize the turds floating in the sewage rather than those in the water.

My favorite WoW pvp bug will always be blessing of sacrifice spamming back in BC and vanilla. You could effectively be part of every combat by blessing people as they raced by on their mounts. Though death grip bucket brigades are a close second.

[Shaede]

I on the other hand remember the months of frustration trying to do Firelands where Rhyolith would go dancing off into the waves and locking you out of the instance for the rest of the week. Incredibly frustrating for those working on their legendaries and support wouldn't unlock it for you. Bug was there until the end of cata, could still be a problem for all I know.

I also remember the when Paladins carpeted the WoLs in Dragon Soul when their Seal of Truth was fractaling into infinity. http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/02/02/re...ealm-restarts/

And it wasn't too long ago that Paladins again made the spotlight when after MoP being on the PTR for what was it? 6 months? A low level paladin sauntered in and solo'd a MoP raid.

But just take a look at their bug forums, they have just as many bugs as any other game.

Can you link me anything saying Rhyolith was bugged for months? I've never had that problem with him...in fact it was one of the easiest bosses in that raid. Blizzard usually hotfixes things within days so...months? I understand you are a wow-hater because someone ninja looted on you during wrath and you never got over it, but if you are going to take shots at a company with a proven track record of constantly fixing their game when there are problems at least be truthful. It's ok to admit you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to a game you haven't played for awhile.

[draykorinee]

he want bugged for months, he had a bug that made him go friendly iirc but no, the kind of bug that renders your whole raid locked out is definitely not one that stays around long, karizee is either making it up or i really had a lot of luck.

[nevermore]

either making it up or i really had a lot of luck.

Blizz has a good track record of quickly fixing serious bugs. If a raid happens to go live with bugs they usually get fixed in a day (the community backlash is massive for any game issue that hinders the PvE race). Heck, when I was in a top guild we once saw a server-side fix WHILE we were raiding the new instance.
Also the mods tend to be quite helpful when it comes to raiding, so if the whole lockout thing is true it would've taken 1 ticket to have it fixed.

[Karizee]

Can you link me anything saying Rhyolith was bugged for months? I've never had that problem with him...in fact it was one of the easiest bosses in that raid. Blizzard usually hotfixes things within days so...months? I understand you are a wow-hater because someone ninja looted on you during wrath and you never got over it, but if you are going to take shots at a company with a proven track record of constantly fixing their game when there are problems at least be truthful. It's ok to admit you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to a game you haven't played for awhile.

Just a randomly clicking at the bug forums...

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3710773352#4
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2794770224#4
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/search?f...e=1&q=rhyolith

We ran into that very same bug a number of times during Dragon Soul while attempting to help a guildy get the last essences for his Dragonwrath. It would lock you out for the week, in one of the tickets the GM said they were specifically ordered not to help with any dragonwrath issues since the devs thought there were too many legendaries being made.

But this stuff is waaaaay off topic for the GW2 forums (except for those who are trying to manufacture this pristine wow with a supposed bug free state via their stellar ptr). I think you guys forget that there are many people here that either currently or use to play wow and know exactly just how buggy it has always been.

[Fencers]

You guys have to stop this World of Warcraft debate.

-- Fencers

[Deleted]

I think the reward bag collection and spam opening bug is pretty up there, as would be the huge warlock aoe gold spots, both are major problems that survived several patches and months of beta testing. Those are just two big player economy ones from MoP. These aren't as noticeable since WoW's economy has always been crap, it's a bit hard to recognize the turds floating in the sewage rather than those in the water.

My favorite WoW pvp bug will always be blessing of sacrifice spamming back in BC and vanilla. You could effectively be part of every combat by blessing people as they raced by on their mounts. Though death grip bucket brigades are a close second.

Alas I never made it as far as MoP, having quit during mid to late Cata. Bag bug sounds odd, will search to see what it was.

EDIT: Just found this, dev stating bug over a year ago, I recalled it due to Sharps post (the second one) which was somewhat gigglesome. Although that was over a year ago & all that changed was the thread got moved over tu bugs (aka swept under carpet).

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...-regions/first

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...o-not-transfer

[Shaede]

You guys have to stop this World of Warcraft debate.

-- Fencers

If you want people to stop then you need to stop Karizee from fanboying and dissing WoW every moment they get. A game they haven't played for years...and are not accurate at all in giving feedback about it. If you don't play a game, then how could you possibly give any feedback about it? Feedback about how a game was 5 years ago is irrelevant.

[Fencers]

If you want people to stop then you need to stop Karizee from fanboying and dissing WoW every moment they get. A game they haven't played for years...and are not accurate at all in giving feedback about it. If you don't play a game, then how could you possibly give any feedback about it? Feedback about how a game was 5 years ago is irrelevant.

Honestly, it takes two to tango.

If you don't like what a user is saying you can either ignore it or report the user. If the user has significantly gone off the rails to the topic or forum an entire moderation team will see it and decide how to handle it.

Getting involved in an argument or debate inappropriate to these forums in specificity is not going to fly. No matter how much Karizee or xxThrallrulesxx grinds your gears.

[Shaede]

Well, I read the forums every day and see the same shit. If you are going to point your finger at me and not at them like you haven't in any of the threads they constantly do this in then it's your own fault. You consistently allow it.

Allowing them to say whatever and bring WoW into everything and every single debate basically assures you will have people step in to defend wow.

[Fencers]

If you are going to point your finger at me and not at them like you haven't in any of the threads they constantly do this in then it's your own fault. You consistently allow it.

No one is pointing the finger at you personally. A general post was made to cease the specifically World of Warcraft debate.

You replied to me so I did you the courtesy of explaining the rationale in using the forum w/r/t users or posts you might not be in line with. I am speaking to you plainly in a non-Mod manner, just as a user. Saying, "Ignore it or report" because it's not really worth it otherwise.

In a moderator sense, we have to remain topic relevant and civil toward each other. No ifs, ands or buts.

Allowing them to say whatever and bring WoW into everything and every single debate basically assures you will have people step in to defend wow.

We don't allow people to just say "whatever". Warnings are given and if necessary, infractions. Though we, the MMO-C mods, try not to infract before giving a warning to cease.

It is also unnecessary for any user to defend any game on these forums. That is already a mistake, as an impulse.