It's not the dungeon finder, it's the people in it.

[Trinafer]

I can not tell you how many threads I have seen due to peopling thinking the dungeon finder is the reason people are acting so nasty. Think to yourself, how is something that makes the game a bit easier going to affect the people using it? There is no way this could happen, there is no trickery or forcefulness of this tool, it's to help you find groups a bit faster than spamming Stormwind or Org looking for a group.

You have a choice of whether to use this tool, it is just like life, you can go to the grocery store and deal with the stupid, ignorant people you may find and get back to your business, or you can buy them online, where it might be easier, but you're missing out on a lot. Terrible analogy? Yes. Makes sense? I sure hope so.

Anywhere you go, you will find these people, nothing is going to be perfect. There is always going to be nasty, mean people. You just need to remember that there are nice people out there too, willing to give you a hand and enjoy what's going on. You wouldn't blame your car for breaking when someone else beat it up, would you? Same thing goes with the dungeon finder, Blizzard implanted this feature to make things easier and more enjoyable for players. From what I've seen, the dungeon finder attracts these mean people like moths to flames because it's not often you find someone in your own realm, and it is very easy to get away with. The worst that could happen is getting kicked, and they know it. It's like a child screaming, if the child can get away with it the first time, he/she is bound to do it again. If the adult catches it before it becomes a problem, then the child is likely to think twice before screaming. Unfortunately, we can not punish these people and attempt to help them. We do have the power of tickets, kicks and so on though. Yes, kick system isn't top notch at the moment, but here are some things that might help you get through these people.

1: Remain calm, the more you rage and yell, the more they're going to bully, hurt and so on, and less of a chance they will leave.
2: If racist, sexist remarks come up, don't be afraid to open a ticket and talk to Blizzard about the problem. There is a chance this person could be banned.
3: Don't bully back. No matter how angry you are, being a jerk back may get not only the person that was originally in trouble, it may also get you in trouble.
4: Don't blame the entire dungeon finder system. It's not the tools fault, it's the people.

If you do all of these things already, great! There are some people who don't, and I highly recommend using them. It can not only make you feel a bit better about the system, but it can help get rid or even better, help these "meanies" and "jerkfaces".

Don't bother to post if you have nothing good to say about this thread.

[Meonerg]

I could not agree more sir. It is in fact the WoW Gamer mentality that is ruining such a good tool. People blame it because it´s easier then blaming themselves, etc.

I don´t use it anymore because I don´t need but heck, clicking one button then getting a group is awsome! Way better then spamming "LFG/M Stonecore HC" all day long in Stormwind / Orgrimmar!

For you that have just read this thread and you are against such Tool, please, explain us why ! What is so wrong with this tool that makes you rage at it?

Inb4 "Free valor = free epics mon"... That´s probably right but hey, that´s not the question here.

[BatteredRose]

Very well said, Hydrex!

[Deleted]

I've often tried asking friendly to just play nice but 90% of the time they still acted like Aholes and refused to listen. And this comes from a guildgroup (3members) so we could kick before asking them nicely to stop.

As much I would love the idea of "If I'm friendly, they will be friendly back" it doesn't work well with the dungeon finder system since they don't loose anything if they show bad behavior. Pre dungeon finder if you acted like an ass you could go in trade/general chat to look for a group again and it could take shitload of time since the word spreaded if you acted like an ass on the server.

[MintJam]

There's some really bitter people on WoW, for absolutely no reason. They think that just because they're capped and running a dungeon with strangers it entitles them to complain about how much everything and everyone sucks and that they're always right. Even if they have really smooth experiences with the LFG tool, they'll still complain about it for whatever reason they can. I've come to just accept that the community is a bunch of crybabies that want everything their way. There are exceptions, but I'm seeing myself lean towards the bad side more often.

[Deleted]

From a design point of view "Its the player, not the system" just doesn't cut it. If it gets bad you have to think of ways to fix it,
Its the same reason why forums have Moderators/ban/delete. You create a forum for people to post on but you have to respect the responsibility to moderate any issues.
This (imo) includes the dungeon finder as a public social system. Methods need to be implemented to try to moderate it, but of course it is a sensitive fragile subject not to mention harder to implement.

[ManjiSanji]

I agree wholeheartedly.

WoW is still a great game. The Dungeon Finder is an awesome tool.
The biggest problem WoW has is not technical, it's not gameplay, it's not graphics, and it's not design; it's the people in the game.

Personally I have tried very hard and at length to help people, to encourage good behavior, to shrug off bad attitudes and try to get people to focus on playing together, but the tide of vitriol has worn me down lately, and I just can't keep up with it. Thank Valve for Portal 2!

But really, the best way around this issue is just to be decent and helpful to eachother, and hope it catches on. It's really satisfying when it does.

[Bruxby]

ya pugs can be brutal, just the state of affairs, and guild runs make it a lot easier and the random people are less likely to talk badly to you. but if that's not available, u just have to stick it out, and sort of play devil's advocate when they call you bad or fail and ask for advice and how they might have done differently. it's very easy to insult but more difficult to give intelligent advice. so this way even if you make mistakes in the dungeon run you can feel smarter than someone who starts bashing you.

[Firedemon]

Most of the people who bitch and cry are actually the retarded idiots ... and retards will always be retards, doesn't matter how you approach them. Indeed they let themselves go because they get away with it ... you have extremely low chances to ever meet them again.

As to why against the tool, the reason above, if it was like before, manually looking for people on the same server, a few retarded shows will guarantee them to have a very hard time in finding people to group with them. The absence of the tool also made people more social and created friendships.

You have a choice of whether to use this tool

This is what most people don't understand, why take the long road if there's a shorter one? It's easier and faster (for tanks and healers at least) to click a button and wait, than ask for people in chat or whisper people. Also since most of the players are using the tool your chances to find people are very low.
For the people crying about spamming LFG for hours, cut the crap will you? I don't remember waiting for more than 5-10 minutes for a group through all BC and WotLK before the tool, that as a DPS.

Anyway I only do heroics sometimes on my alt, with or without the tool, so I care little about it.

[Dairystyle]

The dungeon finder has a lot of morons in it but this "you don't have to use it" crap is really getting old. Even if you're in a guild you aren't guaranteed to have someone on who can tank, or who can heal. Or maybe you're just on at different hours or in my case, your server completely blows for guilds who are worth anything.

Yeah, I can spend $25 and server change with absolutely no guarantee I'll find a good guild that actually does anything but this "it's your choice/fault" reply is as bad as the morons who ruin the tool.

I'm at a point I'm going to quit WOW outright soon because I see more and more bad players in every sense of the word and fewer and fewer decent players. Except the well-meaning but poor playing types. People who are genuinely nice but couldn't complete a raid if they were given cheats to accomplish it.

[Deleted]

I agree with you 100% there op. Basically what Ive thought for the last...year and a half.

[Deleted]

I dont have much experience with other mmo's but i wonder why wow's community is so bad as outlined above. are not all mmo communities made up of the same target audience?

I do think the tool itself would be more uber awesome if it was limited to the server itself. The community would have to behave better in return?

[keiranthil]

the problem is entirely the dungeon finder, because it lets mediocre players at best, and extremely terrible players at worst get into the same dungeon group as people from top 10 u.s guilds.

If blizzard would fix the requirements and stop giving handout opportunities to casuals, or at the very least stack dungeon groups so that the best players are all put into 1 group instead of having to carry new or terrible players then maybe the system wouldn't be so broken.

new players/ terrible ones should be grouped together and should have to struggle through a heroic so that maybe they learn something coming out of it, like oh hey i should probably know what this boss does before i get there, or maybe like i should know what min maxing is before i queue my character. Fix the system, don't blame the players because god only knows blizzard enjoys having as many as possible so long as they are still a company interested in making money

[Deleted]

Aye its hard to blame people really.

Its entirely possible to plonk your way through the game in a mish mash of the wrong gear and flowers in your hair and get to 85, maybe run around a bit like a headless chicken getting free honor in pvp and you can end up with enough gear to plop into a heroic without the slightest clue of what is aggro managment means, what is cc, who is this decursing you speak of because None of these are "required" along the way.

The only hit ive seen of this is when you get your main "Steady shot" thingy as a hunter you are made try it out" Surely this should be done with most of the more important core utilities also?

This definately is not the players fault in the slightest. Shur i would have done the same except for a friend directing me to forums when i bought the game.

[Plutarch78]

The vast majority of my LFD pugs have been positive. And to those who say "I was able to get a group together in 5-10 minutes before LFD, GET RID OF LFD!!!!!," I'm calling bullshit on this one. Before LFD, I hardly saw ANY dungeon (nevermind heroic) because no one would tank, or heal our group. Getting a group together was like recruiting for a raid. Took way too long. And no, "everlasting friendships" (whatever the fuck that means) didn't develop after we cleared a dungeon. And NO ONE ever used the LFD channel, either.

[coldbear]

LFD = 4chan

There's no expectation that you'll ever see these people ever again. Therefore no incentive to play nice or get a reputation for being a good, solid, polite player.

Anonymity brings out the worst in people.

[Plutarch78]

the problem is entirely the dungeon finder, because it lets mediocre players at best, and extremely terrible players at worst get into the same dungeon group as people from top 10 u.s guilds.

If blizzard would fix the requirements and stop giving handout opportunities to casuals, or at the very least stack dungeon groups so that the best players are all put into 1 group instead of having to carry new or terrible players then maybe the system wouldn't be so broken.

new players/ terrible ones should be grouped together and should have to struggle through a heroic so that maybe they learn something coming out of it, like oh hey i should probably know what this boss does before i get there, or maybe like i should know what min maxing is before i queue my character. Fix the system, don't blame the players because god only knows blizzard enjoys having as many as possible so long as they are still a company interested in making money

Fix the system? How bout fix your holier-then-thou attitude. The PuG isn't there to play according to what YOU think is acceptable. If you want better groups, take the high road and at least show them what they need to do. You'd be suprised. And if it still doesn't work then run with a fucking guild and stop with the "I hate casuals in pugs" routine.

[CrunkJuice5]

There's some really bitter people on WoW, for absolutely no reason

no,there's reasons.things like 1 year of endless ICC and bg queues being screwed up for forever are the reasons why people are bitter.but who knows if blizzard actually learned from there mistake with dragging out ICC so long.seeing as how,there not releasing any 10-25 man raid content in the next patch

---------- Post added 2011-04-23 at 04:47 AM ----------

and extremely terrible players at worst get into the same dungeon group as people from top 10 u.s guilds.

i dont think ive ever gotten grouped with anyone from any top 10 u.s guild,i have however lately gotten grouped with people from non us servers though

this one guy i thought was a bot.but i dont know

[Leorina]

I dunno, I like helping people and try my best to do so. I dont mind if people are pulling subpar DPS, but if someone else in the group bags them about it, I try and help. Whether they listen is something different. 2 stories regarding this.

I was on my warrior as dps and the fire mage was slacking pretty hard. I didn't say anything cause well, it's not like he was wiping us. The priest pipes up towards the end, linking recount and starts insulting him for being a shit mage. Then I spoke up and said "Hey I have a fire mage at 85, did you want help or anything?" to which the little mage goes "yes please! I only went fire a few hours ago" "Thats cool, if you can wait for 5 minutes after we've killed this boss we can have a chat ok?" and I spent some time telling him rotations, glyphs and specs. He was very thankful.

Next story, I was on my enh shaman and came across a rogue in full vicious pvp gear doing very terribly. I checked recount and noticed that he didnt seem to have poisons on. So I asked him "Hey, do you have any poisons on your weapons?" "Nope" "Why's that?" "Cause I dont" "You might be doing a bit better if you did have poisons" -no response- "So are you going to make any sort of attempt to improve your DPS at all?" "Nope, so you might as well just kick me". Needless to say that vote passed.

[Xaphiste]

I think the majority of long term players have noticed a decline in WoW's community for years as Blizzard slowly made changes to the game to appeal to a wider demographic. I remember back in the day when people used to cheer eachother on with raid progression and such but now people are accused of all sorts of rubbish. Unfortunately the more people you have in a room, the higher chance of having the displeasure of being acquainted with a complete and utter prick.

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