HEROIC: Valiona and Theralion 10-man ZERG tactic?

[Zumzar]

Sup guys,

My 10-man guild, currently at 7/13 on Heroic, have planned we want to go V&T as our next Heroic challenge. And let just get one thing straight before I start this post: We DO NOT have a Rogue available!

So, I've browsed these forums, and various tactical guide videos on how to deal with this encounter, and I stumbled upon a very interesting quote along the way:

"2 tanks, 2 healers, 6 dps... zerg the dragons down without sending anyone to the twilight zone (except the tanks when they fall through, they can nuke down a couple of adds while there).

As long as your DPS & healers are decent, this tactic is super easy in 10man heroic."

I believe the DPSers in my guild are very capable, so I wanted to know if anybody has had experience with this tactic? Perhaps a video? Some more details? When to pop heroism?

Best regards
Zumzar of The Machine on Sylvanas-EU

[Charrison25]

who do u have in your group, our 10 man sent me down(fury warrior) and i just victory rush spam. rogues make it easier but the fight is still doable without one

[Thaendra]

My guild tried this on 10man and found that it (zerg strat) did not work for us. Maybe it was the DPS. Instead we just had someone (me) bring in a really crappy geared rogue alt and win :P The rogue does not have to be well geared. Another way you can do it is send down a ret or healing paladin + a mage or paladin dps (anyone who can clear the debuffs really). We also were prepared to do this with a regular healer and 1 dps going down into the twilight, which was working reasonably well in some attempts. You don't -need- a rogue, it just makes this fight a lot easier is all. And I mean this rogue does not have to be well geared, just specced right and know what to do, that's literally it.

[Deleted]

Just send a healer and random dps to the twilight and the other healers should be able to keep your raid up outside. As long as you don't touch balls or get breathed on, you're fine. Our dps is quite good, so we only have to send in 2 teams before we can zerg it from 25%.

[Sidonis]

send a warlock, shadow priest, or mage down during the dazzling destruction, kill what they can before their stacks get too high, then send down a couple dps and a healer at the normal time you would.

[Kiry]

Rogue
even a heroic 5 man geared one.

that's all I have to say.

[ttkyle]

I would say using a rogue (or fury war I guess) is the "zerg" strat and any other is just dumb.

[Zumzar]

Ok guys, thanks for the replies..

But has anybody else had experience with the Zerg tactic? By zerg I still mean:

"2 tanks, 2 healers, 6 dps... zerg the dragons down without sending anyone to the twilight zone (except the tanks when they fall through, they can nuke down a couple of adds while there).

As long as your DPS & healers are decent, this tactic is super easy in 10man heroic."

[Ashvael]

I haven't tried it but if you're going for a zerg strat, why use 2 tanks? DK, cat or even Ret/War all can tank the dragon with cooldowns for the few seconds it takes your tank to go up again.

We're using the "normal" strat with a rogue but we're also playing with 1 tank only.

[Deleted]

Ok guys, thanks for the replies..

But has anybody else had experience with the Zerg tactic? By zerg I still mean:

"2 tanks, 2 healers, 6 dps... zerg the dragons down without sending anyone to the twilight zone (except the tanks when they fall through, they can nuke down a couple of adds while there).

As long as your DPS & healers are decent, this tactic is super easy in 10man heroic."

The fight is not made with a requirement of a sublety rogue, so by all means, try the zerg tactic. If you find it doesn't work, try weaving in 1 dps + 1 healer going (maybe not at once - I've only done it on 25). I for one have thought about the zerg tactic being more than viable, so try it out and see how it goes!

[acblumen]

If you're going to do a zerg tactic, use only one tank. My guild one shots V&T every week with one tank (10m Hc of course), although we use a geared rogue underneath.

Anyway, try 1 tank, 2 heals, 7 dps. Also, make sure everyone in the raid is equipped with a Mirror of Broken images ( Tol'Barad Rep trinket). Absolutely amazing for almost every single hard mode fight. Use it to mitigate blackouts, or Oh shit moments during the zerg. Make sure the tank has a cooldown up going into the twilight realm when he shifts( shield wall, pain sup, guardian spirit, etc). A warrior is most optimal for this role because he can heroic leap to exit portals but we manage it fine with a DK tank.

Happy hunting. If your dps is good boss should die fast.

[Zumzar]

Is it doable w/o the Mirror of Broken Images?

[irismoon]

I echo Zumzar's question. We have a handful from the 10 with the trinket, the tank among them; but not all 10 would have this. Still do-able?

[Wilderness]

It may be possible to zerg it though I think that would be quite tough.

Still, there's no reason to use 2 tanks anyway, just have a warrior, dk, or druid off-tank for a few seconds while the tank gets back up. With all the nerfs you don't need a sub rogue, they just make the fight a joke. Our DK has done the twilight realm solo, and it sounds like someone else did it with a warrior from this thread. You should be able to do the fight with the usual strat subbing some other class in for the rogues job.

[Deleted]

Zerg him down works good with class stacking of Warlocks and shadows, they deal an insame amount of damage with dotting both dragons.

And you don't need two tanks, just a "skipper", something that survies 2-4 Hits.

[Lepertum]

Ret pala and holy pala if available are great alternatives for sub rogues, altho I do the fight on 25 I'm sure it works on 10 also. Me and my pala friend found out it's easily doable to stay down there for 2 mins or even a bit more (2wings+ zealotry cd's for lots of dmg on the adds) we can both take upwards of 20 (25 or more even) stacks, bubble, and start over. Just dont hit any orbs with 20 stacks cause well.. that won't end well .