[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[RobertoCarlos]

lol this garian kid needs to stop drinking the coolaid from bible camp.


*edit and I call BS shes fought all the top fighters. daario naharis? the mountain? oberyn? Barristan Selmy? Khal drogo? Euron Greyjoy?

[eschatological]

She's beaten everyone she's met in the books too, under the same circumstances (the melee at King Renly's tournament, Jaime tired and weak).

Even the fights that have been added have been very clear: she probably wouldn't have won if the male in question wasn't somehow extremely wounded. Stannis was literally propped up against a tree. If she hadn't killed him, he would have been dead 5 minutes later. The Hound had been stabbed and had a festering infection and could barely stand. In the books, Arya could have killed him easily at the same point.

I don't see how you can say it's "agenda-driven" to say a woman beating a man in these very specific conditions. If there was one *added* fight where she won handily over someone recognized as a much better fighter who was actually in fighting condition, maybe you'd have a point. Honestly, your opinions make no sense.

edit: In fact, I'd say one of the main themes of the book is how people get caught up in stories and reputation, and how easily those things can crumble. CF: Sansa's whole worldview in the first few books, the talismanic power of "The Rains of Castermere," Jaime's struggle to keep his image after he loses his hand, and at the same time the struggle to fight his reputation as "Kingslayer" instead of what might readily be considered "Savior of King's Landing."

[Feali]

Defending bad writing by saying it's book-reader circle jerking is becoming just as old and flaccid way of expressing yourself as saying something doesn't follow the book by the word.

People seem to argue that the show shouldn't be criticized for it's terrible current direction because the adaption thus far has been good. Well yeah, it has but again and again the show has taken turn to the worse whenever they've strayed from the book content (apart from very few select scenes) and started creating their own thing which has quite well shown that they are pretty inept at writing things of their own. That's why it all seems extremely out of place when put side by side with the older content.

I should put a disclaimer in my sig:

"90% of what I say is not meant to be taken serious"

[Wyattbw09]

If there was one *added* fight where she won handily over someone recognized as a much better fighter

She did handily beat Loras Tyrell in the show (not sure if that happened in the book)

[eschatological]

IN King Renly's tournament, yes, that was in the book. Plus, that was a melee, while Loras is known as a great jouster.

[Sooba]

A female Mary Sue called Brienne defeats all the best male warriors in Westeros.

Yes, that's garbage and agenda-driven.

It's very transparent.

They chose to make the battle of Hardholme instead of the battle of Winterfel, the latter of which many of us have wanted to see *for years*.

But a we-must-unite-against-a-common-evil storyline prevailed.

Why didn't the Wildlings join Stannis like in the books? Maynce's men killed women and children but suddenly it's evil to burn him alive.

Etc etc. Poor ideologically-driven writing.



I'm listen to the Warrior of Light theme at the moment.

Oh for fuck sake. Why do we even try:

The hound was crippled already by a festering wound.

The wildlings didn't join Stannis for the most part. The largest portion were housed at Mole Town and eventually parceled off to help Garrison more forts along the wall.

The "unite or die theme" is from the fucking books. It's Jon's whole schtick for the entirety of book 5.

The battle of Winterfell didn't even happen in book 5, so you can't complain that it was too small in this show seeing as they could have just not had it at all this year...


Seriously, either you didn't read the books, your reading comprehension is abysmal, or most likely your ideology is so ridiculous that it's in the way.

You're projecting, so hard.

[Deleted]

She's beaten everyone she's met in the books too, under the same circumstances (the melee at King Renly's tournament, Jaime tired and weak).

Even the fights that have been added have been very clear: she probably wouldn't have won if the male in question wasn't somehow extremely wounded. Stannis was literally propped up against a tree. If she hadn't killed him, he would have been dead 5 minutes later. The Hound had been stabbed and had a festering infection and could barely stand. In the books, Arya could have killed him easily at the same point.

I don't see how you can say it's "agenda-driven" to say a woman beating a man in these very specific conditions. If there was one *added* fight where she won handily over someone recognized as a much better fighter who was actually in fighting condition, maybe you'd have a point. Honestly, your opinions make no sense.

edit: In fact, I'd say one of the main themes of the book is how people get caught up in stories and reputation, and how easily those things can crumble. CF: Sansa's whole worldview in the first few books, the talismanic power of "The Rains of Castermere," Jaime's struggle to keep his image after he loses his hand, and at the same time the struggle to fight his reputation as "Kingslayer" instead of what might readily be considered "Savior of King's Landing."

Brienne versus the Hound never happened.

So ask yourself: why was it put in the show?

Ok, the lack of available time to include all stories is a valid excuse. I can accept that.

But in the end, Brienne still defeated a great male warrior, after easily defeating Jaime when their fight wasn't so one sided in the books.

Suddenly she's in the north and sneaks through an entire battle to magically stumble over Stannis to avenge both Renly and Shireen (from the viewer's point of view). Brienne is constantly announced as a woman.

Brienne serves a narrative of female empowerment.

If that's what you enjoy in a show, then more power to you.

The hound was crippled already by a festering wound.

Brienne never fought the Hound in the books.

The wildlings didn't join Stannis for the most part. The largest portion were housed at Mole Town and eventually parceled off to help Garrison more forts along the wall.

Stannis has northern support. They were allergic to him in the show.

The "unite or die theme" is from the fucking books. It's Jon's whole schtick for the entirety of book 5.

The battle of Winterfell didn't even happen in book 5, so you can't complain that it was too small in this show seeing as they could have just not had it at all this year...

They could have made a full scale battle of Winterfel, but chose to elaborate on an event that was barely mentioned in the book (Hardholme).

Jon did a poor job in the books. Stannis has an army.

[Darth Belichick]

Except Hardholme is arguably more important to the (show's) narrative. The white walkers are the big bad of the show. That's it. Everything else is happening while that is going on. Watching Stannis lose in the battle of winterfell overall means nothing except for Stannis losing, which is fine how they did it. Showing the white walker's power and Jon able to kill a wight with his valaryian steel sword is hugely important. Just because you can't stand women for some crazy reason (bad breakup at some point? Did your wife cheat on you with a woman or something?) doesn't mean Stannis should miraculously be the hero of the story and win. Doesn't happen that way, get over it.

[RobertoCarlos]

just go away garian. Take your BS feminism propaganda to reddit.

[Deleted]

Except Hardholme is arguably more important to the (show's) narrative. The white walkers are the big bad of the show. That's it. Everything else is happening while that is going on. Watching Stannis lose in the battle of winterfell overall means nothing except for Stannis losing, which is fine how they did it. Showing the white walker's power and Jon able to kill a wight with his valaryian steel sword is hugely important. Just because you can't stand women for some crazy reason (bad breakup at some point? Did your wife cheat on you with a woman or something?) doesn't mean Stannis should miraculously be the hero of the story and win. Doesn't happen that way, get over it.

I was under the impression that the show was meant to be an adaptation of the books. The show creators remade the story in their image instead.

If they had shown Stannis winning support in the north then he might have overshadowed Dany and Jon. They could have stretched Stannis's arc out for another season.

It really feels like there is a palpable hatred for Stannis, even in this very topic, that spilled over into the show.

[eschatological]

They clearly said they would be deviating from the books this season, because they were getting ahead of them. Fact of life. That's something you just have to accept.


Deviating from it shittily is something you can complain about, but I don't think the Brienne storyline was shitty, and the shitty part of Stannis's storyline is not that he died, it's just that his character did a complete 180 before he died and then it didn't make any difference.

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Also, they put the Brienne-Hound fight in because it clearly consolidated most of her storylines. You couldn't have all that stuff in the Saltpans where she looked for Sansa, or met the wandering Sparrow, or went to the cave and killed some of Vargo Hoat's old men. She needed some way to a) possibly achieve her goal of saving one of Cat's daughters, and b) fail that goal. Arya was a logical choice because no one had any idea where Sansa was.

[RobertoCarlos]

This subject has been well covered already in this thread, but how did Stannis do a 180? You should rewatch the show so its fresh. From the moment we meet Stannis (on the tv show) hes burning people alive. They even went to great lengths to show hes constantly at conflict with the lord of light and using magic. This is even more highlighted and amplified with the character davos who acts as a moral center and tries reminding Stannis who he is and why he would be a good king. And to not go down that dark road. And Davos even convinces Stannis to leave melisandre behind before the blackwater battle where stannis is massively defeated. From that point on he gives up everything to become King. Pride, honor, family and lastly his own life. Everything except duty.

His story comes full circle. Beginning in fire and ending in fire (killing his daughter directly led to his death.)

[eschatological]

1) Everyone he killed prior to his daughter had broken his code of very strict justice.
2) He regularly did not kill innocent people when he could have. He didn't kill Gendry (and I would argue wouldn't have even if Davos didn't secret him away), he didn't force Jon to bend the knee when he had the superior force over him, he allowed wildlings to pass through the Wall and settle on the Gift.

The issue isn't with him killing people, the issue is with him abandoning his defining characteristic to kill people who didn't deserve his brand of justice.

And yes, I agree, killing his daughter led directly to his downfall, because everyone abandoned him, because he abandoned his defining characteristic in one fel swoop. The point is that he didn't die because he worshipped a false god (we've seen R'hllor actually has power), or because R'hllor makes him evil, or something - he died because he drastically changed who he was. His story didn't end in fire inasmuch as it ended in him not being true to himself.

[Deleted]

On behalf of myself and many other Stannis fanboys, please don't judge us by Garian.

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This subject has been well covered already in this thread, but how did Stannis do a 180? You should rewatch the show so its fresh. From the moment we meet Stannis (on the tv show) hes burning people alive. They even went to great lengths to show hes constantly at conflict with the lord of light and using magic. This is even more highlighted and amplified with the character davos who acts as a moral center and tries reminding Stannis who he is and why he would be a good king. And to not go down that dark road. And Davos even convinces Stannis to leave melisandre behind before the blackwater battle where stannis is massively defeated. From that point on he gives up everything to become King. Pride, honor, family and lastly his own life. Everything except duty.

His story comes full circle. Beginning in fire and ending in fire (killing his daughter directly led to his death.)

Already posted this, but i'll post it again.



Now tell me that guy didn't do a 180.

[KrazyK923]

Hey we're back on this exact same argument again.

Surely sides will switch and people will change their minds.

[Deleted]

Hey we're back on this exact same argument again.

Surely sides will switch and people will change their minds.

Pipe down there Edgelord. We'll be back on Jon Snow in a few days.

[KrazyK923]

Pipe down there Edgelord. We'll be back on Jon Snow in a few days.

Nah, I won't. Because its the same people using the same faulty logic and declaring Stannis randomly did a 180 degrees because they're butthurt they were blind to who the character was.

Posting that stupid video of clips spliced together as if it proves anything again really doesn't accomplish a thing but ignore any context whatsoever behind the actions Stannis takes that you clearly are upset about.

[Deleted]

Nah, I won't. Because its the same people using the same faulty logic and declaring Stannis randomly did a 180 degrees because they're butthurt they were blind to who the character was.

Pray tell, what Stannis' character was then.

[KrazyK923]

Pray tell, what Stannis' character was then.

We already had this conversation twenty times over. I'm not repeating myself again. Merely pointing out how the thread has basically devolved into a merry-go-round where one of the few of you, including a mod, keeps bringing up a topic beaten to death. It's gotten to a point where I'm fairly certain you all just like to pat each other on the back about how right you think you all are.

And I don't see it ending any time soon, even when Season 6 starts. Because you and the few others are going to be back throwing a fit about how whatever inevitably happens to the Boltons made Stannis' act not matter or something else.

[Deleted]

We already had this conversation twenty times over. I'm not repeating myself again. Merely pointing out how the thread has basically devolved into a merry-go-round where one of the few of you, including a mod, keeps bringing up a topic beaten to death. It's gotten to a point where I'm fairly certain you all just like to pat each other on the back about how right you think you all are.

I think Stannis did a 180, you don't. I can fully accept that.

Now you need to do the same. I'm not trying to convince you my point of view is correct, i'm merely stating it.