DK PvP Heals

[Snakez]

Well looks like some people have no idea about how DKs work... 10% DS? Blood healing too much? meh

I find a lot of people don't approach DKs properly in a fight, lose, and complain on a forum.

and then we get unproperly nerfed

exactly...there's no way to say 15% heal is alot, in frost/unholy using DS?
you are going to be doing some spongbob strikes

ROFL

[Zalavaaris]

uhh ya, just faced a dk/mage team in 2s and the dk was like 5%, popped anti magic shield and death striked to full hp in 3-5 swings....OP much?

If thats the case he did not just pop anti magic shell and DS to full, he wouldnt have had the runes to pull something like that off unless he popped his empower runic weapon, in which case he can only use it every 5 minutes. Just finish kiting him. It isnt as simple as you are making it out to be. Did he pop lichborne and heal with the death coil macro? because DS and that macro makes more sense for a full heal. But that kills his RP so there is a time with little damage output. Just sayin.

[unholyskipper]

I really feal everyone complaining about dk healing should really role one and just try healing and seeing how "OP" it really is
I feel that people get pretty aggrevated at dks for no reasons...they are handled pretty easy by keeping them at range...personally feel they need a slight buff in mobility for pvp rather than any nerfs
plus lets add up the maximum amount of heals a dk can have 3 death strike in 3 seconds and then 3 death coils in 3 seconds (the absolute maximum a dk can ever heal himself would be 50k +25k thats about 75k)
and that would take 6 seconds (minimum ...that whole rotation of healing often can take up to 10 sec)
anyway during this time you can easily get away from the dk and if he blew his trinket than he has no way to get to you ie no way to heal

o and dont complain about death coil healing its 27k in 4-5 seconds ussually ...ive found its wasted heal better to just hold lichborne to get out of a fear becuase any class can do 27k in 2 hits (somtimes even 1)

[Zalavaaris]

I don't think you got my point.

Yes, DK's have to sacrifice a lot of damage when they heal themselves.
Yes, those heals keep them alive in a lot of cases, over and over again.

Who cares about the fact that you won't do any damage for a few seconds when you're 95% sure you'll survive the incoming damage?

In other words, "it sacrifices a lot of our damage" is a lame arguement.

It doesnt sacrifice our damage for a few seconds then we can go back to full on power.... If we do all of the things to heal ourselves our entire rotation is off, we dont have RP, we dont have runes, and we are dead in the water for about 15 seconds after we pull out our big heals. And by the end of it our big 5 minute CD empower runic weapon has been used so we cant even get runes back that way. Its not as easy as ok... self heal to full and start bursting again.. that doesnt happen.

[Balduvian]

This would only matter in 2s, are you running or have you ever seen a blood dk+healer combo?

It's not just Blood. Blood isn't the problem AT ALL.

And I know "2v2 doesn't matter". Doesn't change the fact that it's retarded.

It doesnt sacrifice our damage for a few seconds then we can go back to full on power.... If we do all of the things to heal ourselves our entire rotation is off, we dont have RP, we dont have runes, and we are dead in the water for about 15 seconds after we pull out our big heals. And by the end of it our big 5 minute CD empower runic weapon has been used so we cant even get runes back that way. Its not as easy as ok... self heal to full and start bursting again.. that doesnt happen.

Again, if 15 seconds of not being able to do shit is going to safe you life multiple times whereas other specs/classes would've just died, who gives a shit about the damage at that time?

[Deleted]

Zerging people down with death strike only works against bad players or at low gear levels. Then, it's great fun though.

I played against DKs a lot as a druid (resto/ugly owl), and really hated their selfheals. Because I got bored with my druid I've now mained a DK for a while.

The main weakness of death strike spam is that it requires melee range, a weapon, and heavy runes. If you stand in front of a frost death knight as a rogue (or warrior even..) and try to zerg him down, you'll get obliterated (literally).

I have the same problems with decent hunters, for example. Can't hit them, can't heal myself, can't beat them. Ever.

[melzas]

You dont win in PvP by healing youself, you win by killing. Blood dk can self-heal for tons but they are easy to slow,kite and their damage is weak (compared to ret paladin you mentioned). Thats why you never see any blood dks in arena over 2000 rating, they are not OP at all

[yurano]

Again, if 15 seconds of not being able to do shit is going to safe you life multiple times whereas other specs/classes would've just died, who gives a shit about the damage at that time?

Death Strike is imperfect, it does not even guarantee your survivability. It is only ever useful proactively or with a healer.

I don't see people QQing about Rogue Vanish, Mage Iceblock, Paladin Bubble, Priest Dispersion, Elemental Shaman Kite+Self Heal, or Warlock Drain. What makes DKs any different? I have lost or come close to losing to exceptional players who know how to fight against DS. Its doable.

[Darkdruidelf]

When they heal, they do no damage because they are spending all of their runes on healing. Learn to kite when you get them to low HP.

[Deleted]

well, they did nerf blood pvp so you only could get blood shield in blood presence so you make a lot less damage. But I have to agree frost is pretty op atm but unholy is balanced with feral druids and warriors. So I don´t think they should nerf classes atm just buff other classes who needs it.

[ckwolfe]

Hey guys!

I checked for other threads on this subject and (surprisingly?) could not find any. I probably just suck at everything

I really only PvP in this game, and while I have generally learned to just accept that PvP is imbalanced, and I know it's not balanced around duels or 2s, etc. etc. it seems like the heals DKs have for themselves in PvP are a little ridiculous. But I don't play one, so I must be biased or something.

My main question is, can anyone explain to me why Blizzard nerfs stuff like (for example) Ret Paladin self-healing so heavily, but is okay with DKs healing themselves for ridiculous amounts in addition to all of their survival abilities, all while doing respectable amounts of damage? Do these DKs really need these heals for PvE that badly? Blood seems to heal the most, but that's... a tanking spec. And tanks are supposed to get heals, right?

I'm sure you know what I'm getting at, so I'm just gonna come right out and ask it. Why is Blizzard perfectly fine with DKs being so powerful (might I say, overpowered)?

I'm not asking this to say WTF I LOST IN A DUEL WHY DOES MY CLASS SUCK, or anything. I'm just asking because I'm sure I'm missing something, somewhere, some logical point that justifies DKs being so OMGWTF in PvP, and someone will tell it to me and I'll be all like, OHHH OKAY, makes sense, and DKs won't seem so overpowered anymore. Anyone know Blizzard's logic on this, or have any opinions?

Sorry if I typed too much. Thanks!

Advice to beating one (I am one on occasion), ignore them until they are last alive. treat it like a healer. If he's teamed with a healer, then you should never die. Blood DKs can be easily kited. What you need to watch out for is when he pops lichborne. If you can use any undead-only abilities, use them then.. If your lucky you can nerf his self healing to maybe one cast. Expect this to come if he starts stacking RP and is taking heavy damage. There aren't any blood dks that are rated high and theres a good reason for that.
Frost DKs... sorry your f'ed here, they are simply OP; best bet is to avoid standing near your teammates to avoid aoe cc, but with DG theres not much u can do.

[Difuid]

Simple, make Death Strike not usable in arena. Like Bloodlust, timewarp, Layonhands and so on.

Shall we make feral druids unable to use any sort of heals either Miss. Run behind the pillar and heal to full?

[Balduvian]

Shall we make feral druids unable to any sort of heals either Miss.run behind the pillar and heal to full?

Feral druids and "run behind the pillar and heal to full?"

Wait.

Are you...

No you can't be...

Right?

Oh lord.

[Dmchomerun]

But ret pally healin needed a nerf.

For the 5 billionth time, it is the Selfless Healer talent that needed a nerf, considering it would make us legitimate off-healers, other than that, a 20 sec CD on our only reliable heal is just sad. Especially when Blizz then states they don't want Ret to sacrifice damage for healing, then tell me, are are not only DKs, but warriors sacrificing damage to heal themselves, while still doing more damage and self-healing than Ret?

[Rixxe]

Feral druids and "run behind the pillar and heal to full?"

Wait.

Are you...

No you can't be...

Right?

Oh lord.

I lol'ed so much.
Just for those believers that ferals can heal to full with our 20k mana, when each cast costs around 8k ..... oh yeah....

Getting back on the topic of DK self healing: As was mentioned, its not the fact that when you heal yourself you stop doing damage.... Its the fact that YOU CAN do that. It will save your life, which is basically why its so good.

I'm not just talking about Blood (lol), but Frost and Unholy have insane healing mixed with insane CD's mixed with insane damage.
And YES in 3s, theres been huge amount of times when a ghoul sack or deathstrike spam has saved a DK i was about to kill. Personnally i dont think any class should have that kind of healing when being able to do that much damage.

Also before some retard DK comes in and states that they have low mobility..... It doesn't matter, because everyone else around you is either slowed, chained or getting raped by damage. Not to mention if that target does get away for even the slightest moment.... 'DONT WORRY GUIS ILL DEATHGRIP LIKE A BOSS!!!!!!!!!'

[Athael]

I don't think you got my point.

Yes, DK's have to sacrifice a lot of damage when they heal themselves.
Yes, those heals keep them alive in a lot of cases, over and over again.

Who cares about the fact that you won't do any damage for a few seconds when you're 95% sure you'll survive the incoming damage?

In other words, "it sacrifices a lot of our damage" is a lame arguement.

No, I think you're the one who doesn't get the point.

Said point is that when people complain about DK self healing being OP, it's almost always in the context of a DPS class that can also put out tremendous pressure/damage. My point is that when this self healing is taking place, then that damage/pressure is not. Thus, the main complaint as to why it is OP is wrong/not applicable. When a DK goes into self-healing mode, they're basically putting out not much more damage than a dedicated healing class.

Also this:

It doesnt sacrifice our damage for a few seconds then we can go back to full on power.... If we do all of the things to heal ourselves our entire rotation is off, we dont have RP, we dont have runes, and we are dead in the water for about 15 seconds after we pull out our big heals. And by the end of it our big 5 minute CD empower runic weapon has been used so we cant even get runes back that way. Its not as easy as ok... self heal to full and start bursting again.. that doesnt happen.

It's basically like this, Balduvian. You can do good damage, OR you can stop doing 90% of your damage for a full 20-25 seconds to heal yourself up, and only then if your opponent is dumb enough to stay in melee range. Because most QQ stems from the misconception that DKs are unkillable DPS machines that just passively regenerate all their health at no cost and no consequence, that QQ is invalid. DK self healing is not OP because there is choice and sacrifice involved.

[ChildeRoland]

It's a very obvious reason.

It's called.

PvE

[Balduvian]

No, I think you're the one who doesn't get the point.

I said "MY" point.

Said point is that when people complain about DK self healing being OP, it's almost always in the context of a DPS class that can also put out tremendous pressure/damage. My point is that when this self healing is taking place, then that damage/pressure is not. Thus, the main complaint as to why it is OP is wrong/not applicable.

Feral damage is fine indeed, but Frost DK's can put up even MORE damage. They have more/equal control as well. And AGAIN: No one cares about losing his/her entire pressure for 15 seconds if that's going to safe his/her ass (multiple times a game).

EDIT: Ferals have those situations too. Our complete pressure is gone even when we have to go Bear Form, and especially if we use Frenzied Regeneration. Even then, our survivability is no way near as high as DK survivability.

[Desirie]

tbh the healing isn't needed, especially not as the big heals come from glyphed Death Strike, which is only Unholy and Frost presence, meaning it has no advantages in PvE. I do play a dk (my alt) and solely death striking through my healers cc has saved a match several times, it's a bit op but I'm not going to say that they should remove the glyph, merely reduce the amount of healing done by death strike through the glyph. Fair enough, you sacrifice damage for survivability, but a DK's basic cooldowns can easily save them from anything. (IBF is a soft shield wall that makes you immune to stuns, AMS negates any enemy spell that's thrown at you and you can use Lichborne and spam Death Coils into yourself for healing, and I almost forgot pet-sac.)
It's a hero-class, I get it. But that's still no excuse to make it 'op' in the sense that you can basically heal yourself until you're out of runes.

Obviously it's completely fine to agree or disagree, I'm just stating my opinion.

[zanzoo]

Very OP, imho. Should be tuned down.