The Affix ……Afflicted Souls…. Disscussion

[Nixor GM]

Why make an Affix that only a handful of classes can deal with? It is clear that most people looking for members will only chooose those memebers based on their ablity to handle this Affix. That puts the rest of us simply running our own keys. That is not what it is about for me atleast. I enjoy variety.

As far as to what the others groups are thinking, it simply makes sense. Not only does it make things easiser, but you have a higher chance for success. For example, if you only have 1 or 2 people in your group that can do it, and 1 of them dies, that last person has to solo them every 30 seconds. Why build an Affix around a handful of classes? Soulution… Get rid of Afflicted Souls and create a new inclusive Affix. Thoughts?

[Puri]

Personally I never found what people have against that affix, it really is a non-affix if you have at least one player (plus always the healer who might or might not want to save his dispell for more pressing debuffs) that can cleanse it. No need to stack them, even a single one will suffice, as it is a 10s cast and dispell has a 8s CD.

But I get where you are coming from, and the easiest solution as I already wrote in the beta forums was if also offensive dispells would work. That would afaik leave only two classes (DK and warrior) in the rain, and you could even hardcode some exception for them (like shattering throw or grip would work).

[Tech614]

Why make an Affix that only a handful of classes can deal with?

Every healer can deal with it. Every monk, paladin, shaman, evoker, priest, druid and Mage of any spec can deal with it.

This isn't some major issue you're trying to make it out to be... Healers can solo them in almost all situations outside of officer pulls in freehold where they need to hold dispel for oiled blade. Any other dispel added to the group on top is gravy afterwards.

But I get where you are coming from, and the easiest solution as I already wrote in the beta forums was if also offensive dispells would work. That would afaik leave only two classes (DK and warrior) in the rain, and you could even hardcode some exception for them (like shattering throw or grip would work).

So you gonna pay the team that has to come up with a coding solution to make something both a hostile and friendly mob at the same time? It's real obvious why this isn't a thing.

[Ielenia]

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. This affix is chill as all hell. Just toss a quick dispel and the threat is over. And by 'dispel' I don't mean only the priest's ability, but any and all abilities that cleanse poison, disease, curse and/or magic on friendly targets. And I think even the mage's Remove Curse works?

[Alroxas]

Why make an Affix that only a handful of classes can deal with?

So all healers can deal with one of the dispels (up to 2 may be required). Then it's just a matter of having 1 of the following:

• Priest
• Paladin
• Shaman
• Monk
• Evoker
• Mage
• Druid

That's 7 out of 13 classes in wow. Technically, a DK can use Death Coil to heal a soul but that's really ineffective.

It is clear that most people looking for members will only chooose those memebers based on their ablity to handle this Affix.

Spelling issues aside, how is that any different from groups who want Augevokers in their group for the damage boost or previously rogues for their shroud of concealment (which now mages have via Mass Invis).

If anything affixes like Afflicted help diversify group comps by incorporating utility that some classes can bring that often don't get used that much.

And to be fair, a lot of affixes from previous seasons were healer affixes. Very few involved the DPS from doing extra mechanics.


If there is an issue with Afflicted it's with unit frames. Typically I have friendly nameplates turned off and weeks with Afflicted, I have to remember to turn them back on.

[Lynexia]

Personally I never found what people have against that affix, it really is a non-affix if you have at least one player (plus always the healer who might or might not want to save his dispell for more pressing debuffs) that can cleanse it. No need to stack them, even a single one will suffice, as it is a 10s cast and dispell has a 8s CD.

But I get where you are coming from, and the easiest solution as I already wrote in the beta forums was if also offensive dispells would work. That would afaik leave only two classes (DK and warrior) in the rain, and you could even hardcode some exception for them (like shattering throw or grip would work).

This is a classic mistake that players make.
10s cast 8s CD doesn't mean we have 2 seconds to spare it means we have barely enough time if we immediately stop everything which we often cannot do in high keys. Even if we do react almost immediately there's very little chance we'll get both spirits every single time they come up. If you only bring 1 dispel to your group you have no right to complain if the healer misses a spirit because frankly sometimes it takes an entire second to find them in the room.. In halls of infusion they can literally spawn under the bridge to the last boss. and that's not even going into GCD which if they spawn as you cast that's a whole second of your 2 seconds gone and at that point it near impossible get them both.

Now there is the argument that you can also heal them, but since, like explosive they also do not take healing from aoe sources it means that there are a fair few classes who can't instantly heal it such as evoker or paladin.

I can't stand people who downplay the difficulty of the affix in general. With one person only doing dispels, it's very tricky to do at the best of times, You should always have at least 1 extra dispel person who is actively helping with them just to make it simpler. DPS already practically have 0 responsibility in M+, there's no reason they cant help.

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Every healer can deal with it. Every monk, paladin, shaman, evoker, priest, druid and Mage of any spec can deal with it.

This isn't some major issue you're trying to make it out to be... Healers can solo them in almost all situations outside of officer pulls in freehold where they need to hold dispel for oiled blade. Any other dispel added to the group on top is gravy afterwards.



So you gonna pay the team that has to come up with a coding solution to make something both a hostile and friendly mob at the same time? It's real obvious why this isn't a thing.

This is just wrong, Healers straight up are not soloing the affix. Infact is actually extremely reckless to leave it purely to the healer and I can almost gaurantee that 99% of the time someone else in your group is getting the second one and you haven't realized it

[Relapses]

I've previously defended Explosive being a "healer Affix" so my thoughts on this are couched in a belief that healer-only or healer-centric Affixes aren't necessarily a bad thing. Healers dislike hearing this but when you consider the value of DPS and tank globals, healers simply have the most bandwidth. That's not to say that players in other roles should straight up ignore it, just that if you are a healer you should expect that most players are going to assume you handle certain aspects of the key. This is exceptionally true in PuG situations. If you, as a healer, feel like this isn't fair then communicate with the group before the key starts and remind the people in your group that you may need help at certain parts of the key. This problem is less prevalent the higher the key level goes as you'll be less likely to meet the sociopaths who literally cannot comprehend the concept of group play in keys.

That said, both Incorp and Afflicted suffer from the issue that they are not equally easy for all classes to handle. This disparity leads to one of the worst feelings you can have as a player in a key: You see an Affix. You want to solve the Affix. Your class kit cannot solve the Affix so you watch helplessly as the group tries to recover from a mistake which you had absolutely no agency over. This definitely needs to be addressed next season. Either they need to provide an alternative way for every class/spec to interact with the Affix or they need to remove them and go back to the drawing board.

[Ludek]

Is it hard affix? No
Do I like it? No

Mostly because I main Blood DK so I cannot do anything about it (or actually can do, i a very roundabout and random way, either via Death Coil, or trying to detonate Bloodworm on it).

It's just painful to see, the group messing it up for any reason, while you cannot do nothing about it, and just see the castbar finishing slowly.

[Puri]

With one person only doing dispels, it's very tricky to do at the best of times, You should always have at least 1 extra dispel person who is actively helping with them just to make it simpler. DPS already practically have 0 responsibility in M+, there's no reason they cant help.

And you literally quoted me saying to have "atleast one player (plus always the healer who might or might not want to save his dispell for more pressing debuffs)", so I am not relying at the healer here at all but expect him to be the backup. And yes, I can absolutely expect any DPS who is capable of dispelling it to immediately dispell it as there is also a 2s grace period where you can see them spawn, I did it more than once this week.

[Plehnard]

The two affixes are indeed terrible for some classes.
As a warrior there is absolutely nothing I can do against those disspell ghosts and only a 3min cool down that you have to talent into to get rid of the other,
while other classes like mages can easily deal with both of them with no extra steps taken and there's no other affix for the left behind classes that would compensate.

[Healerme]

It is a non affix generally, but with the new affixes I can see why a warrior main might be feeling hard done by for example.
2 new affixes both of which you can't help with, while other classes can solo both. I'd argue that's a pretty poor design.
I'm in the camp that affixes have never once increased my enjoyment of a key I'd be content of they were scrapped, or massively revamped to actually be enjoyable gameplay (prior good seasonal affixes).

[klaps_05]

Afflicted is the easiest healer affix, most issues I have seen is healers just not being aware of it and not having set up to solve it, but that is more on the player than the affix itself.

[Tech614]

Healers straight up are not soloing the affix.

I literally have. This is straight up worst case scenario and it's still fine for the key range an mmo champion poster like yourself is running. Which is why this complaining post is completely unnecessary.

[stross01]

If people aren't helping with dispelling the ghosts, just find better players. Tanks and dps can definitely afford to lose GCDs to not be lazy.

Is it hard affix? No
Do I like it? No

Mostly because I main Blood DK so I cannot do anything about it (or actually can do, i a very roundabout and random way, either via Death Coil, or trying to detonate Bloodworm on it).

It's just painful to see, the group messing it up for any reason, while you cannot do nothing about it, and just see the castbar finishing slowly.

I don't think you've been able to heal others with Bloodworms in like 10 years.

[Lynexia]

I literally have. This is straight up worst case scenario and it's still fine for the key range an mmo champion poster like yourself is running. Which is why this complaining post is completely unnecessary.

The issue is that when people talk about this stuff they are referring purely to pugs, if you are talking about it when you only run with guildies or friends your opinion literally doesn't count, why? Because people play regularly with people their own skill but pugs are a complete mixed bag of skilled and unskilled players and when you get a bad group you sometimes cannot afford the GCD it will take to dispel it but you get blamed because people such as yourself insist that it's the healers job and is "no problem to solo". It might not be a problem all the time that is correct but outright saying that because you've done it means it blanket can be done solo is frankly... misguided and stupid.

Also assuming someone on MMO champ is a certain skill level because they post here is so stupid.

[Ludek]

If people aren't helping with dispelling the ghosts, just find better players. Tanks and dps can definitely afford to lose GCDs to not be lazy.



I don't think you've been able to heal others with Bloodworms in like 10 years.

This could be true because last time I remember them doing this was in MoP days.

[Alroxas]

... when you get a bad group you sometimes cannot afford the GCD it will take to dispel it but you get blamed because people such as yourself insist that it's the healers job and is "no problem to solo".

Actually this is quite true. In one past dungeon run I had the group comment that my play of a mage was "horrible" until I posted the details results from dispelling which actually outmatched the healer in terms of number of dispels I did in that run.

PuG players can be quite ignorant (and rude) but that's what you get when you play with a bunch of strangers with zero accountability.

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That said, both Incorp and Afflicted suffer from the issue that they are not equally easy for all classes to handle. This disparity leads to one of the worst feelings you can have as a player in a key: You see an Affix. You want to solve the Affix. Your class kit cannot solve the Affix so you watch helplessly as the group tries to recover from a mistake which you had absolutely no agency over.

How is that the case with Bursting? Many a PuG groups treat Bursting as a healer only affix. DPS still goes ham on bursting down packs instead of letting the debuff fall off. And unless the group has a priest (w/ Mass Dispel), there's no safe way to go to the high stacks without someone dying.

And then consider Raging affix (prior to DF S2 rework) where it used to also buff damage of enemies AND even a smaller handful of classes could "remove" the enrage debuff. Again, similar to bursting affix, one class (Evokers) has access to an AoE removal of this debuff (Oppressing Roar with Overawe Talent)

Either they need to provide an alternative way for every class/spec to interact with the Affix or they need to remove them and go back to the drawing board.

Considering how long we've had bursting and explosive, I don't think you'll see those changes. At least Raging now no longer confers a damage buff (but still grants immunity to CC).


I expect minor tweaks and removal might be on the board (since we've had some affixes retired) but I don't think you'll ever get parity where all classes can deal with X affix equally well.

I mean I guess Spiteful can be handled by all classes since all classes have some sort of root/slow CC they can use? But even that's not really fair since melee have a tougher time with those spawned adds compared to range?

[Tech614]

there's no safe way to go to the high stacks without someone dying.

It's not stack count with bursting that kills you, it's constantly refreshing the stack. Healers can handle a 10 stack without issue if you properly killed all the mobs at the same time and didn't turn a 4 stack into a 5 stack into a 6 stack which is way more dangerous than just a straight 10 stack all happening at once.

It's absolutely a dps affix, but it's more on dps to kill things evenly than "stopping at high stacks".

[hulkgor]

Why make an Affix that only a handful of classes can deal with? It is clear that most people looking for members will only chooose those memebers based on their ablity to handle this Affix. That puts the rest of us simply running our own keys. That is not what it is about for me atleast. I enjoy variety.

As far as to what the others groups are thinking, it simply makes sense. Not only does it make things easiser, but you have a higher chance for success. For example, if you only have 1 or 2 people in your group that can do it, and 1 of them dies, that last person has to solo them every 30 seconds. Why build an Affix around a handful of classes? Soulution… Get rid of Afflicted Souls and create a new inclusive Affix. Thoughts?

It's probably the simplest and most non-intrusive of the affixes, what is literally called a "non-affix". Yet here you are, making a fuss out of nothing.

I find that odd.

[Relapses]

@Alroxas -- Counterplay for an Affix is important. When either Afflicted or Incorp go off there is no real counterplay other than praying that it doesn't happen during a particularly mechanics-heavy portion of a dungeon. If the punishment for failing the Affix in many situations is a wipe then there's no excuse for every player in the dungeon not having a shared responsibility in preventing that from happening.