10 man vs 25 man difficulty in firelands

[Deleted]

In my opinion 10 man is alot easier than 25 man, did a full clear on 10 man the first week since people were on vacation and stuff, and have downed everything on 25 man by now and all I can say is that 10 man is _alot_ easier. I don't know about the heroic modes that might be different but atleast normal mode 10 man wins in easymode

[Deleted]

Can we just get a lock on these topics as soon as they pop up please or just give it a fucking sticky ¬_¬ sick of seeing them.

[Deleted]

10 man is ALOT LOT easier than 25.

[DraconusIX]

Some fights easier on 10, some easier on 25. Heroics are usually where 25 is easier then 10.

[SilkforCalde]

More space to move on and adjust? Easier to get people together?

In all fairness 25 man is easier, just slightly. But it is also more socially engaging, therefor the popularity.

Interesting comment. 10 man is vastly, vastly, VASTLY more popular than 25 man.

[Deleted]

Social-wise, 10 man allows more freedom of speech in vent, more friendliness overall.
Game-wise, 10 man is generally easier in the current content (4.2), besides H:Beth tilac (and certainly H:Rag) and less troubles to organize it. Not having all the buffs isnt an issue, but the setup must be optimized.

[Lilija]

Personally I only have full experience at one fight on both 10 man and 25 man and coming from there, you cannot really put it that this and this is easier at all aspects.

In the first reset, after having problems with 25 man Ragnaros we decided we want to take 10 best players and just do 10 man asap so we can unlock hardmodes. At 25 we had issues with phase 2 and even sometimes phase 1 (people dying from stupid things). Also a lot of dc plus unprepared people who at some point we had noone to replace with. We started the 10 man and just got to the 2nd intermission without any special preparing and then the fun started. We had many wipes at low %. The lasy fight required a lot of perfection at the 2nd intermission and phase3 from each and every of the raid members.

When we did 25 man and people finally learnt how not to die before 2nd intermission we just got to phase 3 and had a kill.

Bottom line is that, everything that needs spreading and special possitioning is much easier on 10 man. Everything that needs specific tasks is usually easier at 25 man.

Now, 10 man is tuned down assuming that you are not able to get all the possible raid buffs.

At the end, for me personally 10 man is much easier. First of all it's much less hassle with organizing stuff. Second, I play this game for a long time so for me perfecting my assignment is not something especially hard. That's why for me personally, a 10 man will always be easier. It's easier to make 10 people learn their thing rather than have 25 people do that. It is much easier to find 10 properly geared and skilled people than 25 (especially now, when most of the experienced players quit).

That being said, I enjoy 25 mans much more since they are much bigger challange for a group. Besides, hearing 25 people screaming on VT after a successfull kill - priceless

---------- Post added 2011-07-21 at 08:42 AM ----------

Our 10 man wasn't even close to top notch of our best players, we've had 2 10 mans of our 25 run at the same time both smashing through 10 man and finding it much more easy then 25, you can't really carry people on 25 so its bad to say that, because if you expect to carry some people on 25 man they will die and in the end cost the raid their kill, 25 isn't as forgiving as many people like to think.

To use the excuse 25 man is more easy because you can just carry 15 people is kinda bull, because those 15 people can and will likely die if they're just being "carried" and therefor cost the kill for the raid. You have to have 25 good people just as you would have 10 good people for 10 man.

I have to agree. For example if you don't have all 25 people alive (ar aleast all the dps) for Rag's 2nd intermission you most likely won't make it thru it. This is a fight where even on 25 man you need to have everything assigned. Sure, I don't deny that maybe it is possible to do without prepration, however, assigning people to sons make it so much easier.

Another example, heroic Rhyolith. For guilds that had farmed 13/13 for a long time, this fight might have been a walk in the park. For those who don't have that level of gear on all of their raid members, you cannot afford a single person being dead for long or you will be wiped by superheated.

25 mans are bit more error forgiving in majority of situation but not always and not as much as many claim. Cata in general is not exactly error forgiving (appart from nerfed content ofc).

---------- Post added 2011-07-21 at 08:54 AM ----------

Did you just use the words "popularity" and "25-man" in the same sentence? If anything, Cataclysm has brought about the near death of 25-man raiding on many servers, due to how you get equal gear for a fraction of the effort required.

I have to agree. Tbh my guild recently had a little increase in applications and there is one repeating reason people put in their app: "we want to raid 25 man".

The problem is, not everyone of those former 10 man raiders can find themselves in 25 mans. Especially for healers it's a totally different game.

My server atm has 2 alliance guilds and 4 horde guilds that are doing some serious 25 mans - and BL is considered a bit server. Being one of those alliance guild, recruitment is a bitch

[OrcsRLame]

10 Man is comparatively easier. In T11, my guild didn't notice a huge difference in difficulty between 10 man normal and 25 man normal. They were almost equal, with 10 man being slightly easier. In this patch the difference is very clear. We're facerolling through 10 man quite easily, and seriously struggling on earlier bosses in 25.

Somehow I doubt our other 15 people got more braindead between tiers. It seems to have reverted to thw wrath style of 10 mans are just tuned to be easier.

[The Distortion]

I would say 10 man is way harder then 25 man

10 man needs perfection from like every raider in it. and like some said here, 25 man can carry people out there and mistakes can be made.

[Lilija]

Unless you get a completely new team, chances are 10man seems easier. Why? Because the 10man team will most likely be the 10 best players from the 25man team.

Agree 100%

Rhyolith steering gave us a lot of trouble on 10man, seems a bit easier when I watch 25man videos, but at the moment we got it down, so maybe it was improved.

There was a hotfix to his resposivness on 10 man - seen it in blue posts. Also, steering on 25 man isn't exactly easy when you try to push dps on the legs ^^

However, the amount of transition ads on Rag is the same in 10 and 25, so these are way more easy to handle in 25, seeing the increase of stuns 25 people have over 10.

Well, you don't really need stuns for all of them. The key to killing sons is taking all of them below 50% asap - on 10 man 1 person is usually enough to do that fast, on 25 you need 2-3 (depending how close to the hammer the add is). Having experience from both 10 and 25 man Rag, I would say the intermission is equal for both set ups. In both you want to assign people. Having more than 3 on 1 add is an overkill and means some other adds will not go down fast enough.

[Velthy]

Imo generally 25mans are easier, thos sometimes 10mans too depends on the encounter.

[Lilija]

I would say 10 man is way harder then 25 man

10 man needs perfection from like every raider in it. and like some said here, 25 man can carry people out there and mistakes can be made.

It's not true. There are few situations where 25 mans might leave a bit more space for an error but you CANNOT carry people in 25 mans. The reason why my guild had its first Ragnaros done on 10 man instead of 25 man was because of that reason - we had a small group of people in 25 man raid who simply did too many mistakes to get a kill. You need to have everyone alive at 2nd transition.

[Ihsatakar]

The 34 10-man guilds on Wildhammer are all doing it for the challenge. No guild here wanted to take the easy way out with 25s.

[Lilija]

Majordomo overall mechanics allow it to be much more easy on 25 man it seems.

I would like to know what makes it easier on 25 man ... because I can think of one important reason why it's easier on 10 man (more space)

[Callypso]

In the last tier, the 10m content was (on average) harder than the 25m content. That didn't hold for all bosses (Omnotron hc, Al'akir hc, Council hc, V&T hc are examples where 25m hc > 10m hc difficulty wise) but in general 10m hc was harder than 25m hc even if it was just due to tuning and setup requirements.


In the current tier, 10m normal modes are far easier than 25m normal modes. I'd say Ragnaros is close on both raidsizes (even tho the phase transitions are joke on 10m compared to 25m), but on everything else 10m is just plain easier. I've done both, which I don't think many people posting in this thread can say. On top of that Firelands is much more forgiving on your setup in your 10m than it was in T11 content, so that argument kinda goes out the window too.

I have only done the 25m heroic modes sofar, so I can't really comment on those in 10m. But 10m normal FL is definitly a LOT easier than 25m.

[bigbad]

I find majordomo to be easier on 10man since the scorpion cleave averages out to 70k per person on 10man and 90k on 25man, making it much more likely to get oneshot by it. You could argue that 25man has more cds available but that would require a 25man to properly set up a cd rotation while on 10man it isn't nearly that important.

[Zka]

In all fairness 25 man is easier, just slightly. But it is also more socially engaging, therefor the popularity.

Whatwhatwhat? 25mans popular? Then why are there 10x more 10m raid guilds than 25m?

[Deleted]

I would say 10 man is way harder then 25 man

10 man needs perfection from like every raider in it. and like some said here, 25 man can carry people out there and mistakes can be made.

I'd like to see you carry people in 25man through Firelands heroic modes.....

Another clueless 10man player.

[Zka]

I find majordomo to be easier on 10man since the scorpion cleave averages out to 70k per person on 10man and 90k on 25man, making it much more likely to get oneshot by it. You could argue that 25man has more cds available but that would require a 25man to properly set up a cd rotation while on 10man it isn't nearly that important.

Oh come on, you don't need 25man to set up a cd rotation as about 20 of them don't have one... Excuses, excuses...

---------- Post added 2011-07-21 at 11:33 AM ----------

Another clueless 10man player.

Another 25m player who thinks that he's special because of the raid size.

[Deleted]

In pure dps fights 25 is easier. But Alysrazor for example, is harder on 25 atleast in my guild since you can fit more morons in 25 than 10. Fights like Shannox HC are also easier on 25 but 10 man is prolly easier if you dont have good players in your roaster.