Raidbots is very misleading

[Ricecooker]

Just wanted to say that I am slightly disappointed that a site like raidbots made the front page. While by itself and under appropriate circumstances it can be very useful, however, posting an overall "state of dps" style graph provides the wrong idea.

Since I am a shadow Priest I will mainly focus on them for now.

Lets start off with Heroic Beth,
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Beth'tilac/25H/100/14/60/default/
shadow priests rank in at 4th with 26k average. Not bad at all
Heroic Rhyolith,
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Lord_Rhyolith/25H/100/14/60/default/
2nd 34k hooray for aoe!
Heroic Alysrazor...
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Alysrazor/25H/100/14/60/default/
and here's where the numbers get very skewed. 71k dps average for shadow priests. 2nd place on this fight is boomkins at 42k. There is nearly a 30k gap between 2nd and 3rd on dps. Normally this would be fine if they were to exclude this fight from the overall but it is included in all its glory and even with this 30k gap between us and Boomkins, Shadow priests are still barely ahead on an overall standpoint.
Heroic Shannox
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Shannox/25H/100/14/60/default/
2nd 34k but once again if you dig deeper you can see that all of the top shadow priest logs are them multidotting the dogs which is pointless meter padding. I looked through one of their logs and less than 2/3 of their damage was done to shannox.
Heroic Baelroc
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Baleroc/25H/100/14/60/default/
12th behind all 3 specs of rogues and both specs of shaman
Heroic Majordomo
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Majordomo_Staghelm/25H/100/14/60/default/
14th but this is mostly due to losing our empowerment buff from soaking flame scythe with a tank.

I have no issue with Raidbots being a fun "oh look at how people do on fights" site, but what I do have a problem with is when it is posted on the front page of MMO-Champion. There will be so many threads about nerfing certain classes or specs because of ill represented graph that is posted on the front page.

TL;DR
Raidbots is skewed and without proper evaluation the numbers are all wrong.

Edit: this is mainly a response to a QQ thread i saw about how shadowpriests were top damage and I couldn't stand to even start looking at all the posts about people who clearly didn't dig into the logs or even the graphs themselves. Raidbots uses WOL as a tool to show potential damage at an overall standpoint and unfortunately cannot remove the gimmick fights or the meter padding logs.

[Theratzil]

Yeah it is indeed very misleading not only with the shadow priests being on top but state of other classes aswell.

[Kuja]

Yup, those huge gaps should be fixed. No idea how it made the front page I prefer stateofdps.com more tbh.

[Deleted]

Raidbot compiles data, nothing more nothing less. If you are, with all due respect, not able to interpret the data properly, then that is too damn bad.

But you are seriously suggesting that people should not compile statistics because there are idiots who might take it the wrong way and use it to push their agenda?

Welcome to politics.

So if we strip the posting of all points that are obviously crap, following statement remains:

"Do not promote raidbots, else shadowpriest look too strong and people bitch until it ends up nerfed" aka "QQ SP too weak QQ"

[noteworthynerd]

I prefer stateofdps.com more tbh.

Me too, because it uses adjusted totals that factor out gimmicky fights like Alysrazor, but StateofDPS hasn't been updated for 4.2 (i.e. to include Firelands encounters).

[Deleted]

And about adjusted totals and gimmick fights:

Deal with it. Everybody knows how they work, people who use them as argument just try to make a point while not having one.

[Ricecooker]

I know that it is meant for compiling data I currently have 0 issues with shadow dps as it stands we have our strong fights and we have our weaker fights. At no point did i say buffs were needed nor did i say that any classes needed to be fixed. I was simply saying something such as raidbots should NOT make front page news. Simply because people are to stupid to delve into logs. I use wol to analyze data and i have no issue recording logs to find where this dps stood in that flame or that guy thats padding meters.

Also what points are obviously crap? please tell me which statements were and how they were and I will more than gladly fix them...

[Kiry]

I'm not fond of raidbots because people generally dont bother looking at what the data means, or perhaps dont understand the nature of the fight its gathering data from. that's the thing about presenting data, have to know what that data actually represents.

In this, seems like it's just a garbage can without filters.

[Deleted]

Exactly my problem with shadow priests atm. I can pull very good dps in hc's by padding but if you do the fight properly then its rubbish dps. We have benefits atm but they are mainly stand and disperse, guess it guarantees a raid spot. Its the padding to stay decent that annoys me. Plus WoL is extremely bugged at the moment. I am still in top20 with 50k dps on shannox which is beyond all belief

[Affectionate]

Im just curious how multi-dotting the dogs on Shannox is wasted dps / meter padding. They dont get healed up and they still need to die... Or is it 'that' different on heroic? I havent looked into it

[Varyk]

so basically...you want the graph to say that "Shadow Priests take soooooo much skill, they aren't OP at all" even tho they've been top or 2nd dps for prettymuch the entirety of cataclysm

[Miraclous]

On heroic shannox you do not kill the dogs, the only time you attack them is when facerage has to be broken.

I also don't agree with these graphs resembling overall dps. Fights should be split as in stateofdps.com.

[tusker]

Me too, because it uses adjusted totals that factor out gimmicky fights like Alysrazor, but StateofDPS hasn't been updated for 4.2 (i.e. to include Firelands encounters).

Raidbots has spec score which is closer to the adjusted totals you're referring to.

[tacoloco]

The part that's funny to me is that people do stuff to pad the meters. What's the point in that? It doesn't help the player improve.

If you're a raider, wouldn't want to improve instead of doing stuff to just make yourself look better?

[Deleted]

On heroic shannox you do not kill the dogs, the only time you attack them is when facerage has to be broken.

I also don't agree with these graphs resembling overall dps. Fights should be split as in stateofdps.com.

You can easily split the fights by going to the Raidbots site. Boub simply linked an overall graph. Follow his link and you are able to select the date you want to see, timespan, top 100 or every parse available etc. Its a very useful tool but you need to actually look into it rather than just looking at a single chart.

[Myrkur]

The site is mostly used to see how you are performing in your specific class and spec.

Go to the epeen bot and check yourself out. Are you performing in the top 75% of your spec for a majority of fights? Then you're prolly doing something right but need to work on a few things (either gear or rotation). Are you performing at 25% of your spec for a majority of fights? Then you are missing something big about your class and better start doing some research. Are you in the 95th Percentile for just about every fight? Congratulations, you know what the hell you are doing and are appropriately geared.

[Deleted]

that is how dps looks in wow, lowest to the left highest to the right.
raidbots measures from the right going left.

can you see how that is misleading to the general wow population?

all the site says is "the people pushing the extreme for their class does this dps with every single thing going perfect for them. you should at the most be able to do this dps or slightly higher", not "if you're a rogue, you should be able to do this dps while eating dinner".

[Deleted]

The part that's funny to me is that people do stuff to pad the meters. What's the point in that? It doesn't help the player improve.

If you're a raider, wouldn't want to improve instead of doing stuff to just make yourself look better?

Because in a guild with 5-10 standbys you are doing everything in your power to not be at the bottom of dps and being noticed and being benched when there are 8 other classes pulling better numbers than you. Most people have now worked out fire=bad which then means GL/officers only have dps/damage to judge you by. I dont know about you but being benched is not the way i want to play this game.

[tacoloco]

Because in a guild with 5-10 standbys you are doing everything in your power to not be at the bottom of dps and being noticed and being benched when there are 8 other classes pulling better numbers than you. Most people have now worked out fire=bad which then means GL/officers only have dps/damage to judge you by. I dont know about you but being benched is not the way i want to play this game.

To each their own. But I'm not going to be dishonest about my performance and pad my stats to get a raid slot. Being dishonest is not how I play the game.

[tacoloco]

Most people do it because being in the top 10 on WoL does give you a feeling of accomplishment.

Dunno. If I were top 10 or 25 but I knew I was padding my stats, I'm not sure how accomplished I'd feel.