Just converted my Spriest to Holy and need advice please.

[Canen]

I switched to Holy recently and healed for the first time doing a normal cata dungeon. Normal as in a non-heroic. I am sitting at ilevel 346 and it was scary almost running out of mana on every boss fight. I know I am new and conserving mana is something you need to learn, but is mana that big of a problem? I used the chakra for POH, COH, and renew. But it seemed I had to use flash heal and greater heal alot. Obviously that could be why I ran out of mana but if didn't use them people would die. What should I be using in 5 man normals and what is a no no? I was complimented on good heals and didn't have a single death on the run so I look at that as a win for me, but it seemed difficult at times. I really like being a healer after only being DPS on mulitiple toons but it is definetly not easy mode being heals, at least not yet. TYIA!!

[Lecktor]

Advice: Go disc.

Advice: Don't be a dick. --Kel

"Spec" Trolling
This will get you banned. So long as both specs are viable (Viable, not necessarily optimum), if someone is asking "How can I do this fight as <spec>" and looking for tips, tricks, or a couple talents to shift, answer in the context. I didn't tolerate "spec disc lolz" for Wrath, I won't tolerate "spec Holy" as an answer to Disc questions, now, or vice versa.

[zakaluka]

healing 5 man dungeons, especially with a starter set you'll need to be in chakra:serenity most of the time. ch:sanc is very manahungry; sure PoH is our sweetspot both for effic and throughput, but it's also the game's last dumb aoe heal and tends to overheal/range out way too much in 5 mans. A few fights maybe favor chakra:sanc but start with serenity while you give it some thought. Examples: akil'zon, kilnara in troll heroics. For the old 346 heroics very few fights give you any practice with sanc.

With a starter healing set, yes, mana will be a problem. You need to learn where your efficiency comes from and where your throughput comes from. Then you need to experiment to find out when you can stay in efficiency and when you need throughput. Since mana is such a problem for you, the onus lies with your tank to recognize your capabilities and use some cc.

You can't nosedrag a min ilvl healer (or a healer in dps gear) through cata heroics without some carry. PL has to tune back his pace a bit, it's just a fact.

If you are low on spirit but high ilvl (ie you have a raidable dps kit) disc may honestly be better for you for the time being. Disc mana return is more reliant on procs and gives you % of mana pool back per proc. That is, disc mana return is more int-based and rotation dependant than straight mp5 from spirit.

to last reply: "you should go disc". Why do people make bold unqualified statements like this? Top disc are definitely outperforming top holy on WoL (by about 7%), but upon closer examination most top disc are bubble bots. Which have some serious execution challenges. For valid raidhealing approaches, whether to be disc or holy seems to be a question of composition more than anything.

[Kelesti]

In 5-man content, you generally want to be using Serenity instead of Sanctuary for your Chakra state. You use a lot more single target heals, and not having to refresh a Renew on someone you're going to be spending that time healing is better than +15%.

This is really only true when either doing 5-mans, or 2-healing 10's and ending up as the tank healer (or "a" tank healer, at least).

You were using a lot of Flash Heals, and even in 391 gear, that puts a heavy drain on your mana bar, let alone someone down at the 346 level. Slow down, start using Heal. It's "almost-free", in that by the time you finish casting, at that gear level you should have regen'd 85% of the mana cost, which lets you save your mana for when you need the Flash Heal.

[Kirsae]

Yes, at ilvl 346 mana will be an issue, and that goes for both Holy and Disc. In fact, I usually went oom faster as disc than holy at that level.

Aside from reading the usual guides here on healing, I'd recommend staying in chakra:serenity most of your time instead of chakra:sanctuary. Weave heal, holy word:serenity, & gheal on your tank in order to keep your initial renew rolling. There aren't too many 5-man dungeon fights that you need to pump out a lot of aoe heals on unless your dps is being dumb and standing in fire.

[Oneirophobia]

Keeping renew up is very important. For me, I buffed the crap out of renew including glyph, so using the proper chakra state to keep renew rolling for as long as you can actually really helps with mana and passive healing.

[Themos]

To add to what's been said already:

1) Stay in Serenity for reg and heroics
2) Keep renew HoT rolling, use holy word to keep it rolling if the tank is at full health (it's cheaper than reapplying Renew)
3) Swap to Inner Will, instead of Inner Fire. Yea, it's a SP loss but you end up having much better longevity at that ilvl
I'd use Inner Will over Inner Fire until you're at full 353 gear. It makes this much easier on mana, especially when you need to spam a lot of heals, including AoE.
4) Get used to precasting Gheals and canceling them with a quick side step if the tank stays at full health. That way if a tank gets a string of RNG hits on him, you're ahead of the game.
5) Leave room for crits, they'll happen often enough in with holy word serenity spammed on the tank every CD. You should leave some wiggle room for them (although don't depend or expect them). Only real exception is if the tank is taking huge % hits to his health, in those cases all bets are off and you need to spam Fhealx2/Gheal cycles.
6) Keep your overall overheal below 15% or so. Any more than that and you're being sloppy.

An occasional Flash Heal is ok, tank death isn't an option, just don't use it unless you have to.

[Skygoneblue]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm in a very similar situation to the OP except that I've been Holy for a week or so now.

The main problem I'm finding is finding a use for Heal other than to simply refresh Renew. Maybe I'm spoiled from paladin healing WotLK, but Heal is so freakin' slow, and heals for so little that *most* tanks I run with (heroic pugs) are half dead by the time I finish casting it. That includes pre-Renewing them, and bouncing a PoM on the pull.

I do my best to anticipate incoming damage and "whack-a-mole" with Heal, but it's NEVER enough. I always end up having to resort to Flash Heal and Serendipity GHeals to keep people topped off.

Does Holy get better? Am I missing some key tactics with Heal? I love mana efficiency, but I like spells that actually do something too... lol

[eErike]

"bad" gear healing as holy is hard, key is to learn the fight and make the most use of PoM and serenity as possible. Start casting heal before the tank takes damage, if he havn't taken damage untill you are finished casting, interrupt your cast and start casting a new Heal. Now, heal won't keep your tank maxed, so when he/she takes more damage than Heal can handle, cast serenity and PoM, that's about a 30k allmost-instant heal and ypu can resume your Heal casting while the tank takes no damage (allways have renew up on the tank).
As for healing others than the tank, look how fastand often they take take damage, usually it's enough to cast them a renew and let them slowly regain their health.

Hope it helps

Edit: it's important to be able to see what kind of tank you get in a pug, stamina stackers are manasponges and migration tanks are gods for the Heal kind of healing I mentioned earlier.

[Skygoneblue]

Good calls Erike. Last night I was healing this Firelands geared tank with 220,000 health in ZA, and he drained my mana pool on virtually every pull. He broke CC on purpose, and was just about the most unpleasant healing experience I've ever had.

I'll take your advice about Serenity-PoM and see how that works. Thanks man!

[eErike]

Good calls Erike. Last night I was healing this Firelands geared tank with 220,000 health in ZA, and he drained my mana pool on virtually every pull. He broke CC on purpose, and was just about the most unpleasant healing experience I've ever had.I'll take your advice about Serenity-PoM and see how that works. Thanks man!

Glad to help Now keep in mind that letting a tank be on a lower of health is not thebest but can sometimes be used in order to make them activate their cooldown, this is one of the absolutly best ways to save your own mana, and don't be afraid to use flash heal, you don't have to be able to run straight the the next pac after the boss without taking a break for mana.

[Themos]

If you're worried that Heal doesn't heal for enough, swap to Gheal use. The mana efficiency of the two spells is on par, so long as there isn't much overheal Gheal should be your go to spell b/c it gives you more time to do other things like tossing a Renew on a DPS or squeezing in a CoH for the whole party.

And if mana is an issue, don't be afraid to swap to Inner Will. The minor impact to your throughput is well the extra mana at your gear level.


Yes, it does get better. In full ZA/ZG gear you should have no issues dealing with the Firelands tanks, which can get HP quite a bit higher than 220k with the Luck of the draw buff!

[Skygoneblue]

Hey Themos, now that you mention it, I've been using Inner Will all along. I guess it's probably not quite as effective for Holy as it is for Disc huh? It'll only affect Renew, PoM, CoH, and HW:S, but does nothing for Heal, Greater Heal, Binding Heal, Flash Heal, or PoM. It almost seems as though Inner Focus works better for a tank healing task based on what spells aren't affected by it.

[Themos]

You can calculate exactly how much mana it saves you by checking a WoL and counting up the number of times you cast each spell and doing some back of napkin math and comparing the total mana gains from IW vs your combat regen and/or shadowfiend for a fight. Personal experience will vary, but I found it most definitely useful throughout all of t11 content when I was doing 25 mans. In FLs bursty dmg is the norm, not steady, so IF works better, imo. Whenever someone I know tries out holy when they first ding 85, I always tell them to swap to IW and they agree it makes things a lot easier.

If you are having mana issues, things like less Fheal use and IW will help you, not harm you.

As for Disc, IW is only useful if you plan on PWS spamming.

[Healingsara]

Something that hasn't been mentioned (and helped me a lot at lower gear levels) is consumable buffs. Frost Wyrnn flasks are stupidly cheap and it doesn't take long to farm the +90 Int food, makes a world of difference.

[Weerra]

Amusingly, normal 5 mans can be harder than heroics or even trolls.
The reason being: retard parties. People in there almost never know tactics, do crap for dps and just love to stand in pretty fires.

For example, I tried to do a normal on my 328 priest and was baffled at the first boss in halls of origination. A mage went down in flames instantly - he didn't move at all. Tank and a paladin were banging on the invincibility shield. When the only competent owl finally grabbed both switches, nobody interrupted the cast despite me screaming in chat.
And then I got called an elitist for explaining the tactic after the wipe. And booted after they barely finished the boss on the second attempt (the owl again had to run both switches) and paladin died in the last patch of fire.

[Themos]

Amusingly, normal 5 mans can be harder than heroics or even trolls.
The reason being: retard parties. People in there almost never know tactics, do crap for dps and just love to stand in pretty fires.

For example, I tried to do a normal on my 328 priest and was baffled at the first boss in halls of origination. A mage went down in flames instantly - he didn't move at all. Tank and a paladin were banging on the invincibility shield. When the only competent owl finally grabbed both switches, nobody interrupted the cast despite me screaming in chat.
And then I got called an elitist for explaining the tactic after the wipe. And booted after they barely finished the boss on the second attempt (the owl again had to run both switches) and paladin died in the last patch of fire.

The scary thing is that, leveling up you do not encounter these sort all that often. Right up to Stonecore it's been fine on my alts.
I'm currently working on prot pally, and Im only a couple bubbles from 85 and terrified of running dungeons based on my experience a few days ago.

I'm actually debating ilvl cheesing it straight into ZA/ZG so I can skip all the scary.